Do you think price is an issue? I think sales volume has more to do with a lack of advertising and lack of a strong dealer presence. In Southern California there are quite a few dealerships and I’m seeing more and more Alfas on the road over the past year.
2024 price cuts.
Considering there are fewer options available now then when the cars were launched it only seems right the price drops. Either way..... Seems like even more reason to buy a Stelvio over a similarly priced Tonale.
Also... Anyone looking at a 2023 you just got some ammo for your negotiation.
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I don't think price is an issue at all.
I think it's simply the executives are so financially short-sighted they believe offering discounts is "fiscally smarter" then offering a 10 year powertrain warranty. Most likely due to the fact that offering a warranty has the potential for increased costs, while discounts don't.
To put it simpler, they focus on the potential for negative profit impact over the potential for positive sales and thereby increased earnings. Likely due to the increased risk with the option that may increase sales. (Warranty might raise costs. Which is obvious and also directly related to why not doing it is foolish here, the cost increase will probably not be much more per-car then this discount but would have more benifits.)
What they miss is this isn't lost on the greater automotive market/consumers. Consumers may not understand it consciously but as a group we understand it instinctively.
Ie:
Situation 1. Popular perception is something is unreliable. Manufactuer offers longer warranty. Consumers instinctively understand the manufacturer believes the popular perception is wrong, if the manufacturers believes that, so do consumers. Sales increase, this has been demonstrated more then once in the car industry.
Situation 2. Popular perception is something is unreliable. Manufactuer offers discounts. Consumers instinctively understand the manufacturer believes the popular perception is correct and is trying to counter it by making it cheap. Consumers double down on the perception of being unreliable but it's ok... Cause it's cheap. Again, demonstrated more than once.
Both of these options can increase sales, however only one of them does so long term in a way that also guarantees long term profitability, but only if it succeeds. That's the risk part. IMO, with Alfa there isn't much risk but offering it is absolutely needed to change perceptions. That's what the executives miss, they think just building a reliable car will do it. It won't, not now.
The executives know Alfa's are reliable and owners know Alfa's are reliable (though there is a large contingent of people whom have never had a problem who are worried about problems constantly). The executives think that should be enough and don't want to risk the loss of income from not selling extended warranties (pure profit) along with the inevitable increase in warranty expenses (even if that is likely to be nominal). They think sell more with discounts (the cars did sell better when they were getting discounts) and let word of mouth on reliability do it's job.
The Stellantis executives don't understand the secret to having people realize your cars are reliable is the same as the secret to having people think you are sexy.
YOU have to believe it and project that FIRST. When you believe it you act like it, for people its dressing nice, being cleaned and groomed (unless you're Johnny Depp I guess) For cars.... It's a longer warranty than anyone else. (or be Toyota and start from scratch with no reputation one way or the other and spend a decade plus building the reputation from the ground up, and not discounting your cars while doing it. Which isn't an option for Alfa because they aren't a brand new brand like Toyota was when they built their reputation word of mouth.)
Instead of making Alfa into a confident A-list star, Stellantis is turning it into a reality TV B-lister because they are looking for the easiest cheapest route to "success" (profit). In my opinion.
But..... Great deals are to be had on some of the best cars ever made. So that's a plus.
(And they are reliable. To the point it's nonsense Stellantis doesn't offer a better warranty. 10 year powertrain, and also change the oil change interval to 5k. The cost on their end will be less then the sales increase because the powertrain is good and consumer have shown they will embrace cars with that warranty..don't need discounts.)
I think it's simply the executives are so financially short-sighted they believe offering discounts is "fiscally smarter" then offering a 10 year powertrain warranty. Most likely due to the fact that offering a warranty has the potential for increased costs, while discounts don't.
To put it simpler, they focus on the potential for negative profit impact over the potential for positive sales and thereby increased earnings. Likely due to the increased risk with the option that may increase sales. (Warranty might raise costs. Which is obvious and also directly related to why not doing it is foolish here, the cost increase will probably not be much more per-car then this discount but would have more benifits.)
What they miss is this isn't lost on the greater automotive market/consumers. Consumers may not understand it consciously but as a group we understand it instinctively.
Ie:
Situation 1. Popular perception is something is unreliable. Manufactuer offers longer warranty. Consumers instinctively understand the manufacturer believes the popular perception is wrong, if the manufacturers believes that, so do consumers. Sales increase, this has been demonstrated more then once in the car industry.
Situation 2. Popular perception is something is unreliable. Manufactuer offers discounts. Consumers instinctively understand the manufacturer believes the popular perception is correct and is trying to counter it by making it cheap. Consumers double down on the perception of being unreliable but it's ok... Cause it's cheap. Again, demonstrated more than once.
Both of these options can increase sales, however only one of them does so long term in a way that also guarantees long term profitability, but only if it succeeds. That's the risk part. IMO, with Alfa there isn't much risk but offering it is absolutely needed to change perceptions. That's what the executives miss, they think just building a reliable car will do it. It won't, not now.
The executives know Alfa's are reliable and owners know Alfa's are reliable (though there is a large contingent of people whom have never had a problem who are worried about problems constantly). The executives think that should be enough and don't want to risk the loss of income from not selling extended warranties (pure profit) along with the inevitable increase in warranty expenses (even if that is likely to be nominal). They think sell more with discounts (the cars did sell better when they were getting discounts) and let word of mouth on reliability do it's job.
The Stellantis executives don't understand the secret to having people realize your cars are reliable is the same as the secret to having people think you are sexy.
YOU have to believe it and project that FIRST. When you believe it you act like it, for people its dressing nice, being cleaned and groomed (unless you're Johnny Depp I guess) For cars.... It's a longer warranty than anyone else. (or be Toyota and start from scratch with no reputation one way or the other and spend a decade plus building the reputation from the ground up, and not discounting your cars while doing it. Which isn't an option for Alfa because they aren't a brand new brand like Toyota was when they built their reputation word of mouth.)
Instead of making Alfa into a confident A-list star, Stellantis is turning it into a reality TV B-lister because they are looking for the easiest cheapest route to "success" (profit). In my opinion.
But..... Great deals are to be had on some of the best cars ever made. So that's a plus.
(And they are reliable. To the point it's nonsense Stellantis doesn't offer a better warranty. 10 year powertrain, and also change the oil change interval to 5k. The cost on their end will be less then the sales increase because the powertrain is good and consumer have shown they will embrace cars with that warranty..don't need discounts.)
I think a 5 year / 60000 mile warranty would be attractive enough for most buyers. Add in 3 years of scheduled maintenance on top of the warranty would be even better. However, how about spend a little more on advertising. So many people don’t even know the Alfa exists. I see tv ads for Mercedes, BMW, Acura and Lexus. Honda, Subaru, Hyundai, Kia, Buick and Mazda fairly often. Never an Alfa commercial, at least not in the past several years. Ads on Facebook and Instagram don’t cut it. With the right commercials people will want to visit the showroom. Advertising should grab attention, creating an interest in a product and motivate desire to action, ie. visiting a showroom and test driving a vehicle. Without the proper advertising you can invent the world’s best mousetrap but you’ll have no customers.
No argument they need advertising too.
I think the problem there is the Jennifer Lopez effect. Remember that FIAT commercial with Jennifer Lopez when FIAT launched? I think the resulting sales were bad enough it left them afraid to sink money into advertising a new brand. FCA spent a fortune on that commercial and getting her as a spokesperson.
I think the problem there is the Jennifer Lopez effect. Remember that FIAT commercial with Jennifer Lopez when FIAT launched? I think the resulting sales were bad enough it left them afraid to sink money into advertising a new brand. FCA spent a fortune on that commercial and getting her as a spokesperson.
Do you think Maserati dealers are in abundance compare to Alfa Romeo? There are 110 Maserati dealers in US. and 131 Alfa Romeo dealers. 331 Audi dealers and 366 bmw dealers. # of dealers is not the problem although we may think so. I don't hear Maserati owners complaining about lack of dealers but amazingly, alfa owners complain.
366 and 331 dealers in USA is relatively small number if you look at the vehicles they sold compare to Alfa. I think the ratio of Alfa sold and number of dealers is probably a lot better than bmw or Audi since they each outsold alfa by what? 10 times or more? So lack of dealership is not the problem.
warranty... 4 year 50k miles is standard for most cars so that's not it.
Advertisement: I don't think I ever saw an ad for Maserati on TV, so that can't be it. Because they sold 25,000 and alfa sold 13,000 in 2022
I think the target audience for the car was off. They should have started with quadrofolio only then add the 4 cylinders later. Meaning filter out those soccer mom and dads out of the price range, but promote enthusiasts only in the beginning. I think that would have changed the image of the brand rather than watering it down with 4 cylinder with the 6. Why? Because most american car buyers didn't know the brand. Most young professionals in 30's don't even remember the brand. Those in 40's, maybe, but not likely....
Build the brand then the price war. Alfa just did it the opposite way.
366 and 331 dealers in USA is relatively small number if you look at the vehicles they sold compare to Alfa. I think the ratio of Alfa sold and number of dealers is probably a lot better than bmw or Audi since they each outsold alfa by what? 10 times or more? So lack of dealership is not the problem.
warranty... 4 year 50k miles is standard for most cars so that's not it.
Advertisement: I don't think I ever saw an ad for Maserati on TV, so that can't be it. Because they sold 25,000 and alfa sold 13,000 in 2022
I think the target audience for the car was off. They should have started with quadrofolio only then add the 4 cylinders later. Meaning filter out those soccer mom and dads out of the price range, but promote enthusiasts only in the beginning. I think that would have changed the image of the brand rather than watering it down with 4 cylinder with the 6. Why? Because most american car buyers didn't know the brand. Most young professionals in 30's don't even remember the brand. Those in 40's, maybe, but not likely....
Build the brand then the price war. Alfa just did it the opposite way.
When your reputation for reliability is below average, an average warranty isn't average. It's below average.
Argue with VW and Hyundai who both decided the 10 year warranty was the way out...and it worked. Both cases. The only argument against its success is really Mitsubishi, interestingly Mitsubishi is also a solid argument that abandoning your traditional core customer base for the auto market trend of the week is not a great idea. Deciding to make middling driving SUVs instead of inexpensive hot hatches and performance cars has done nothing to help that brand. In that case I'de argue abandoning the core customer base does more damage then a long warranty can repair. The Mitsubishi Outlander is/was the first plug-in hybrid SUV, and as the only one was also the best selling and the brand is the #1 in JD Power customer satisfaction..... But really, who cares? Since changing their brand focus to chase the popular market trends Mitsu's sales cratered from 129k(USA) in 2007 to 50k in 2009. It has taken them 15 years to get back to the sales volume they had in 2007. Alfa should not be doing what Mitsubishi did, which is to chase trends, cut pricing and eventually offer a better than average warranty (which did finally improve sales some but not enough to make up for a lame product line)
I write as it appears Alfa is preparing to both abandon the traditional - highly performance oriented - focus of the brand and not offer anything special in terms of warranty....or advertising.....or dealer support...or .... I know, the Tonale is for a different market, one less driver oriented. Ok, my comment to that is why is Alfa even in a market that isn't driver oriented? Why is it even making a car that doesn't deserve a QV model? The Mito had a QV. I would argue anything not deserving of a QV also doesn't deserve to be an Alfa.
Argue with VW and Hyundai who both decided the 10 year warranty was the way out...and it worked. Both cases. The only argument against its success is really Mitsubishi, interestingly Mitsubishi is also a solid argument that abandoning your traditional core customer base for the auto market trend of the week is not a great idea. Deciding to make middling driving SUVs instead of inexpensive hot hatches and performance cars has done nothing to help that brand. In that case I'de argue abandoning the core customer base does more damage then a long warranty can repair. The Mitsubishi Outlander is/was the first plug-in hybrid SUV, and as the only one was also the best selling and the brand is the #1 in JD Power customer satisfaction..... But really, who cares? Since changing their brand focus to chase the popular market trends Mitsu's sales cratered from 129k(USA) in 2007 to 50k in 2009. It has taken them 15 years to get back to the sales volume they had in 2007. Alfa should not be doing what Mitsubishi did, which is to chase trends, cut pricing and eventually offer a better than average warranty (which did finally improve sales some but not enough to make up for a lame product line)
I write as it appears Alfa is preparing to both abandon the traditional - highly performance oriented - focus of the brand and not offer anything special in terms of warranty....or advertising.....or dealer support...or .... I know, the Tonale is for a different market, one less driver oriented. Ok, my comment to that is why is Alfa even in a market that isn't driver oriented? Why is it even making a car that doesn't deserve a QV model? The Mito had a QV. I would argue anything not deserving of a QV also doesn't deserve to be an Alfa.
Not only is the MSRP $1,800 cheaper, but the Active Assist Pkg is now only $700 (vs $1,595 for 2023).
The 2024 is almost $2,700 cheaper than 2023.
But, don't forget prices went up half way through MY2022. I was lucky to lock in my 2022 with the price when I ordered, not when it arrived at the dealer.
The 2024 is almost $2,700 cheaper than 2023.
But, don't forget prices went up half way through MY2022. I was lucky to lock in my 2022 with the price when I ordered, not when it arrived at the dealer.
Advertising would definitely help. Everybody knows Maserati, it never left the US market. Supercars dont need advertising.
Im afraid Alfa missed their chance. Is it possible they didnt want to many of their cars get in the wrong hands, folks that wouldnt be willing to deal with the quirkiness that comes w an italian car and as a result get a bad name.
Btw, the QV was the first one on the market if i remember correctly.
The price is another issue! Dont get the point of pricing the cars 10k more than what are getting sold for.
The germans sell their cars for the what they do bc THEY CAN.
None of it matters anyway, for most of us the Alfa story started and will end with the giulia and stelvio 2.0's. Their insane rush towards electrifying the whole lineup is a turn off to many of us.
Im afraid Alfa missed their chance. Is it possible they didnt want to many of their cars get in the wrong hands, folks that wouldnt be willing to deal with the quirkiness that comes w an italian car and as a result get a bad name.
Btw, the QV was the first one on the market if i remember correctly.
The price is another issue! Dont get the point of pricing the cars 10k more than what are getting sold for.
The germans sell their cars for the what they do bc THEY CAN.
None of it matters anyway, for most of us the Alfa story started and will end with the giulia and stelvio 2.0's. Their insane rush towards electrifying the whole lineup is a turn off to many of us.
Dropping the prices just erodes perceived value. People don't object to price - they object to poor value for money.
Alfa has value for money - they just need to convey that to buyers and invest in marketing. Just price out a Macan with the same options as a Stelvio Veloce and you'll quickly realize the value Alfa offers.
Alfa has value for money - they just need to convey that to buyers and invest in marketing. Just price out a Macan with the same options as a Stelvio Veloce and you'll quickly realize the value Alfa offers.
Really sad realization....
Even $3000/car at Alfa's sales volume.... Doesn't buy much advertising. I think it might (might not too) be more then what a powertrain warranty would cost the factory per car, but advertising would probably cost more. Which is ridiculous no argument. But regardless that is probably a factor at this point, not a reason for why they have never heavily advertised.
To address the eroding value point, absolutely. However, just like us lucky people who got them when the discounts and incentives were at their highest..... Nothing wrong with getting a great car at a great price. (Even if Stellantis should realize they don't need to do this to sell the cars, there are other things to try)
Even $3000/car at Alfa's sales volume.... Doesn't buy much advertising. I think it might (might not too) be more then what a powertrain warranty would cost the factory per car, but advertising would probably cost more. Which is ridiculous no argument. But regardless that is probably a factor at this point, not a reason for why they have never heavily advertised.
To address the eroding value point, absolutely. However, just like us lucky people who got them when the discounts and incentives were at their highest..... Nothing wrong with getting a great car at a great price. (Even if Stellantis should realize they don't need to do this to sell the cars, there are other things to try)
Except no one knows what an Alfa is, they all know Porsche.Dropping the prices just erodes perceived value. People don't object to price - they object to poor value for money.
Alfa has value for money - they just need to convey that to buyers and invest in marketing. Just price out a Macan with the same options as a Stelvio Veloce and you'll quickly realize the value Alfa offers.
Either way, the discount is not that much. It just mostly undoing the 2022 price increases.
Obviously that isn't because of near 100 years of being beat over the head with Porsche advertising......
I still think a better warranty is the key but, the lack of advertising.. lack of owners events... It's sad. The cars deserve better.
I still think a better warranty is the key but, the lack of advertising.. lack of owners events... It's sad. The cars deserve better.
Just need to make it to that big screen of Fast and Furious 10
100% the issue is a lack of advertising and any attempt to change the narrative about reliability (besides the very recent JD award, which has little to do with reliability). As I said before, I told Larry D that they needed to offer a longer warranty and free maintenance (on top of advertising).Obviously that isn't because of near 100 years of being beat over the head with Porsche advertising......
I still think a better warranty is the key but, the lack of advertising.. lack of owners events... It's sad. The cars deserve better.
Funny thing.... Mitsubishi has won that same JD Power award a bunch of times.
When they shifted from making cars like the Eclipse and Lancer to making ones in "better markets" that appealed to "more consumers" they also saw sales collapse by half then take a decade to get close to the levels when they made niche vehicles.
Genuinely believe Stellantis is following the wrong strategy here all the way around.
Probably.... Just like Mitsubishi.... They will eventually offer the warranty after trying everything else and finding none of it works. (Like naming a 9 passenger EV the 1750 Berlina-max. Like Mitsu did with the Eclipse cross.)
Also probably like Mitsu the damage will be done by then and it won't help that much. That was VW/Hyundai's genius .... Just cut to the chase and offer the warranty BEFORE cutting prices or doing anything else that devalues the brand in any way. (Like reusing nameplates in near heretical ways).
Stupid thing about all this. If Alfa has been sold to VW when they offered .... Bet the first thing that would have been done with the launch of the new cars would be a 10 year warranty. Probably just for the first three, maybe four years and it would have been enough.
When they shifted from making cars like the Eclipse and Lancer to making ones in "better markets" that appealed to "more consumers" they also saw sales collapse by half then take a decade to get close to the levels when they made niche vehicles.
Genuinely believe Stellantis is following the wrong strategy here all the way around.
Probably.... Just like Mitsubishi.... They will eventually offer the warranty after trying everything else and finding none of it works. (Like naming a 9 passenger EV the 1750 Berlina-max. Like Mitsu did with the Eclipse cross.)
Also probably like Mitsu the damage will be done by then and it won't help that much. That was VW/Hyundai's genius .... Just cut to the chase and offer the warranty BEFORE cutting prices or doing anything else that devalues the brand in any way. (Like reusing nameplates in near heretical ways).
Stupid thing about all this. If Alfa has been sold to VW when they offered .... Bet the first thing that would have been done with the launch of the new cars would be a 10 year warranty. Probably just for the first three, maybe four years and it would have been enough.
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