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It's how corporations become profitable now.

Alfa will get tax benefits that will contribute to the bottom line more than selling that engine in the US. It's a nihilistic view to say the least, but popular amongst corporate executives for valid reasons.

I don't agree with all the reasons, and think there are better solutions, regardless this is how it is.

Although.. I sorta suspect in this case the issue isn't just financial. I am guessing with Dodge and Jeep using the Alfa 2.0 in various forms now and having them outsell Alfa by a huge margin, combined with the uncertain supply chain, Stellantis would rather prioritize the engine for other brands, while also not jeopardizing availability for Giulia/Stelvio production. But I don't think that would ever be given as a public reason because it makes them look uncertain/weak as a corporation.
 

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Well...it makes them look uncertain/weak, so much drama surrounding Fiat and Alfa Romeo. Stellantis is treating both like a "ball and chain" while talking them up with BS stories almost constantly. Embarrassing for Alfa. Wasnt this supposed to be the high volume car for Alfa?
 

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It's how corporations become profitable now.

Alfa will get tax benefits that will contribute to the bottom line more than selling that engine in the US. It's a nihilistic view to say the least, but popular amongst corporate executives for valid reasons.

I don't agree with all the reasons, and think there are better solutions, regardless this is how it is.

Although.. I sorta suspect in this case the issue isn't just financial. I am guessing with Dodge and Jeep using the Alfa 2.0 in various forms now and having them outsell Alfa by a huge margin, combined with the uncertain supply chain, Stellantis would rather prioritize the engine for other brands, while also not jeopardizing availability for Giulia/Stelvio production. But I don't think that would ever be given as a public reason because it makes them look uncertain/weak as a corporation.
I think it's more about positioning the Tonale upscale from the Hornet , which is supposedly getting both powertrains and a lower starting price (although that could still change as well).

Higher starting price, more standard equipment, etc. is likely part of the brand strategy. Alfa is not supposed to be competing for Dodge customers. Audi Q3, BMW X1, Mercedes GLA should be where the Tonale is aiming.

As for a need to drop the 2.0 because of supply constraints or improving CAFE numbers, nah. There isn't enough potential Tonale volume to make any difference considering the scale of Stellantis operations and global demand for the GME 2.0.

Here's something to consider: Stellantis sells about 6.5 million vehicles annually which is almost 40% more than GM global sales. They're big. Really big.

Alfa Romeo annual global sales of 29,000 represents 0.4% of Stellantis' annual volume.

Basically, the Alfa brand is a rounding error. Our favorite little brand is lucky to even exist. Tonale is a very good thing and will undoubtedly help brand recognition, profits, and hopefully long term brand viability.
 

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And maybe, the improved performance is worth it??? Is performance improved?
 

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Don't knock it until you try it......my first step into the new age arena will probably be a hybrid as pure EV just doesn't have the necessary range yet. Be kind of cool to drive around the mountain doing errands in pure EV...which is very fuel inefficient in the winter esp. Best of both worlds.
 

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I totally get Alfa is inconsequential to Stellantis as a whole, my theory is more based on how options that were avalible on Alfa's have been removed....but they are available on other brand within Stellantis. Probably that's just because Alfa doesn't sell enough to justify the option list complexity, but I can't help but think if supply issues were better it wouldn't be happening quite so much.

IMO if they wanted to position Alfa above Dodge.... They should have given Alfa the 2.0 attached to the hybrid motor.

Yeah... While I don't think the Tonale has enough juice in the electric motor to justify it's hybridization outside of low cost grocery runs, don't knock hybrids.

Truly hate saying this .. but if Alfa just bought the hybrid drivetrain in a RAV4 Prime and dropped it in the Tonale .... It would probably be a better all-around performance vehicle then the Stelvio...even with a compromised platform comparatively. That low end grunt is badass..it just needs to be in a chassis that isn't a complete POS. Which the Tonale won't be, bet it's pretty great all things considered.

If the Tonale had a 2.0 attached to a hybrid motor at the rear, and a 0-60 mid to low 4 seconds......Alfa dealers would be able to charge over MSRP and there would be waiting lists IMO. As-is... We'll see.
 

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I totally get Alfa is inconsequential to Stellantis as a whole, my theory is more based on how options that were avalible on Alfa's have been removed....but they are available on other brand within Stellantis. Probably that's just because Alfa doesn't sell enough to justify the option list complexity, but I can't help but think if supply issues were better it wouldn't be happening quite so much.

IMO if they wanted to position Alfa above Dodge.... They should have given Alfa the 2.0 attached to the hybrid motor.

Yeah... While I don't think the Tonale has enough juice in the electric motor to justify it's hybridization outside of low cost grocery runs, don't knock hybrids.

Truly hate saying this .. but if Alfa just bought the hybrid drivetrain in a RAV4 Prime and dropped it in the Tonale .... It would probably be a better all-around performance vehicle then the Stelvio...even with a compromised platform comparatively. That low end grunt is badass..it just needs to be in a chassis that isn't a complete POS. (Which the Tonale won't be, I bet it's pretty great all things considered)
Don’t get me started on how the stallantis morons stripped options from their top of the line cars. Eliminated contrast stitching and alcantara from their QV models. You can buy a 40k dodge and get contrast stitching for Christ sakes. Ridiculous
 

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It seems counter productive, stripping options off the very few products they offer is just plain stupid.
They threw Alfa to the curb for the sake of almighty Dodge.
So the copycat gets all the goodies. Although we only heard of the Hornet few months ago but already stole the show...
Like many others was excited about the 2.0 so its a let down..
 

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Don’t get me started on how the stallantis morons stripped options from their top of the line cars. Eliminated contrast stitching and alcantara from their QV models. You can buy a 40k dodge and get contrast stitching for Christ sakes. Ridiculous
Those content decisions are made at the assembly plant level, not by brand or sales region,, etc. Internally, profits are measured by assembly plant, regardless of what brand vehicles are built there.

That's why you can't really look at a Ram 1500 Limited built at the Sterling Heights Michigan plant and compare content with a Stelvio built in Casino Italy. Completely different animals.

When they take off options, or bundle options, or make previously extra cost options standard equipment, it is to reduce per unit cost via reducing manufacturing complexity. Materials cost is a relatively minor consideration. Complexity and massive build combination possibilities due to lots of custom options is very expensive.

As for complaining about losing some interior trim colors, that was also offset by making previously optional equipment standard on some packages. There's several threads about this elsewhere in the forums.
 

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The 29,000 global figure seems low, aren’t they selling 15 to 20k just in the US? Still nothing comparatively speaking.
Alfa Romeo global sales have taken a sh*t during the pandemic, as have most manufacturers and brands. Here's the data for Alfa brand global sales:
2018- 83,438
2019- 54,375
2020- 35,718
2021- 25,964.
 

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Those content decisions are made at the assembly plant level, not by brand or sales region,, etc. Internally, profits are measured by assembly plant, regardless of what brand vehicles are built there.

That's why you can't really look at a Ram 1500 Limited built at the Sterling Heights Michigan plant and compare content with a Stelvio built in Casino Italy. Completely different animals.

When they take off options, or bundle options, or make previously extra cost options standard equipment, it is to reduce per unit cost via reducing manufacturing complexity. Materials cost is a relatively minor consideration. Complexity and massive build combination possibilities due to lots of custom options is very expensive.

As for complaining about losing some interior trim colors, that was also offset by making previously optional equipment standard on some packages. There's several threads about this elsewhere in the forums.
They didn’t add previous options as standard on the QV models. I understand all about reducing complexity and driving down unit costs. I also know you don’t sell a $95,000 dollar vehicle with identical interior to a $50,000 vehicle which is exactly what these morons did. The extrema model even has contrast stitching so that throws the “complexity” argument out the window. If not for my love of the brand I wouldn’t have bought my third Alfa and second QV. Maybe I’m the moron. If your selling a $95,000 vehicle ya better have some options especially when it’s your most expensive model. The folks running stallantis, Chrysler, Peugeot, Maserati and whatever other brand that was circling the drain have no record of long term success. Disgusted watching them erode the value proposition of Alfa. Sorry, very frustrated as I love this brand. Manufacturers like Porsche, lotus, Ferrari, hell even dodge offer a dizzying array of options and yet somehow they manage to produce cars. I refuse to believe they wouldn’t make money charging me $500 for yellow calipers which I’d gladly pay even though caliper colors were a free option before. Yet another rant on my part. Maybe I need Alfa counseling. Lol. Maybe it’s because my winter wheels haven’t come in so my gal spends all her time in the garage on a battery tender. Maybe my shoes are to tight or my heart is 10 times to small. Cheers
 

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They didn’t add previous options as standard on the QV models. I understand all about reducing complexity and driving down unit costs. I also know you don’t sell a $95,000 dollar vehicle with identical interior to a $50,000 vehicle which is exactly what these morons did. The extrema model even has contrast stitching so that throws the “complexity” argument out the window. If not for my love of the brand I wouldn’t have bought my third Alfa and second QV. Maybe I’m the moron. If your selling a $95,000 vehicle ya better have some options especially when it’s your most expensive model. The folks running stallantis, Chrysler, Peugeot, Maserati and whatever other brand that was circling the drain have no record of long term success. Disgusted watching them erode the value proposition of Alfa. Sorry, very frustrated as I love this brand. Manufacturers like Porsche, lotus, Ferrari, hell even dodge offer a dizzying array of options and yet somehow they manage to produce cars. I refuse to believe they wouldn’t make money charging me $500 for yellow calipers which I’d gladly pay even though caliper colors were a free option before. Yet another rant on my part. Maybe I need Alfa counseling. Lol. Maybe it’s because my winter wheels haven’t come in so my gal spends all her time in the garage on a battery tender. Maybe my shoes are to tight or my heart is 10 times to small. Cheers
Well, you need to take that badass out of the garage and go spin some snowy donuts in a parking lot. Always works for me, and I only have a Veloce!
 

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Well, you need to take that badass out of the garage and go spin some snowy donuts in a parking lot. Always works for me, and I only have a Veloce!
Lol, you are probably right. She’s only got 110 miles on her and she’s a hostage to the garage cause the temps dropped a couple days after she came home. Hopefully wheels will be here in a week or two. I’m generally not so cantankerous and shouldn’t call folks morons. I’m frustrated by our lack of options. I’m not an industry insider for certain but I always thought margins were better for options and put more money in manufacturers pocket? I get the Covid induced supply chain train wreck. Just have a burr under my saddle. Loved the interior of my MY19 GQV. Felt special.
 

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They didn’t add previous options as standard on the QV models. I understand all about reducing complexity and driving down unit costs. I also know you don’t sell a $95,000 dollar vehicle with identical interior to a $50,000 vehicle which is exactly what these morons did. The extrema model even has contrast stitching so that throws the “complexity” argument out the window. If not for my love of the brand I wouldn’t have bought my third Alfa and second QV. Maybe I’m the moron. If your selling a $95,000 vehicle ya better have some options especially when it’s your most expensive model. The folks running stallantis, Chrysler, Peugeot, Maserati and whatever other brand that was circling the drain have no record of long term success. Disgusted watching them erode the value proposition of Alfa. Sorry, very frustrated as I love this brand. Manufacturers like Porsche, lotus, Ferrari, hell even dodge offer a dizzying array of options and yet somehow they manage to produce cars. I refuse to believe they wouldn’t make money charging me $500 for yellow calipers which I’d gladly pay even though caliper colors were a free option before. Yet another rant on my part. Maybe I need Alfa counseling. Lol. Maybe it’s because my winter wheels haven’t come in so my gal spends all her time in the garage on a battery tender. Maybe my shoes are to tight or my heart is 10 times to small. Cheers
If you watched the USA -WALES game.. that might have added to the frustration...?
 
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