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Alfa romeo 164S, Giulia ti Sport Q4
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Coming.... our Stelvio Sport Lowering springs.

2.0L models only at the current time. Made in Italy. TUV certified.

Lowers 1.5"

Most of our competitors produce the lowering springs in a hot-wound process (progressivly wound too), but our production is a cold-wound Linear spring. This process makes the springs more reinforced and more durable over time creating a better handling and riding spring over Eibach, H&R or others. More comfortable but providing that sporty handling and looks you are after.

$325.00

STELVIO SPRINGS BELOW:

20551
 

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Customers validity went out the window when they said mileage increased....
 
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Coming.... our Stelvio Sport Lowering springs.

2.0L models only at the current time. Made in Italy. TUV certified.

Lowers 1.5"

Most of our competitors produce the lowering springs in a hot-wound process (progressivly wound too), but our production is a cold-wound Linear spring. This process makes the springs more reinforced and more durable over time creating a better handling and riding spring over Eibach, H&R or others. More comfortable but providing that sporty handling and looks you are after.

$325.00

STELVIO SPRINGS BELOW:

View attachment 20551

Jason are these linear rate springs then compared to stock progressive rate springs?

Progressive rate springs tend to provide better compliance and ride so im curious how these linear ones are doing the opposite of other linears that give a single spring rate over all road and weight transfer conditions?

Mike
 

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Cold wound spring uses pre-tempered rod. So it is heated once.

Hot wound springs have to be tempered after winding. So it is heated twice..or more.

The additional heat application results in more metal fatigue meaning the metal is more stressed and will fail sooner, it also decreases the elasticity of the spring (makes the metal less flexible) so a cold wound spring will provide can provide both more support and ride compliance then a hot wound spring.

The purpose of engineering progressive rate springs is to get hot wound springs that behave more like cold wound.

Cold winding is the superior method of making a spring however it is nearly impossible to do with the rod diameter required for automotive springs, making them very rare in the industry. I'de be interested in hearing the process these springs go through to be made, probably cutting edge stuff.

In springs smaller then those used on cars, cold winding is the default process normally.
 

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Cold wound spring uses pre-tempered rod. So it is heated once.


Hot wound springs have to be tempered after winding. So it is heated twice..or more.


The additional heat application results in more metal fatigue meaning the metal is more stressed and will fail sooner, it also decreases the elasticity of the spring (makes the metal less flexible) so a cold wound spring will provide can provide both more support and ride compliance then a hot wound spring.


The purpose of engineering progressive rate springs is to get hot wound springs that behave more like cold wound.


Cold winding is the superior method of making a spring however it is nearly impossible to do with the rod diameter required for automotive springs, making them very rare in the industry. I'de be interested in hearing the process these springs go through to be made, probably cutting edge stuff.


In springs smaller then those used on cars, cold winding is the default process normally.


Thanks but I wasnt asking about cold vs hot wound. Seperate issue to linear vs progressive rate.


Im asking if these are linear rate or progressive rate springs?

He mentions theyre linear rate but improved ride.
 
Alfa romeo 164S, Giulia ti Sport Q4
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Jason are these linear rate springs then compared to stock progressive rate springs?

Progressive rate springs tend to provide better compliance and ride so im curious how these linear ones are doing the opposite of other linears that give a single spring rate over all road and weight transfer conditions?

Mike
Stock springs are not progressive rate. There are no dead coils on OEM springs. Our springs ride comfortable, they are not progressive either.

22473

This is a progressive rate spring on rear. Not fronts. 2 coils that are close together are dead coils which is a clear indicator of a progressive rate spring.
22474


ST springs for the QV are not progressive either.

22475
 

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Stock springs are not progressive rate. There are no dead coils on OEM springs. Our springs ride comfortable, they are not progressive either.

View attachment 22473
This is a progressive rate spring on rear. Not fronts. 2 coils that are close together are dead coils which is a clear indicator of a progressive rate spring.
View attachment 22474

ST springs for the QV are not progressive either.

View attachment 22475

I was curious about the statement though that your linear rate springs are more comfortable than the progressive rate competition. Do you know how that is? What are the rates?


You also stated the competition uses hot wound process and named Eibach and H&R as examples.

Dont Eibach and H&R also use cold wound process for our application?
 
Alfa romeo 164S, Giulia ti Sport Q4
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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
I was curious about the statement though that your linear rate springs are more comfortable than the progressive rate competition. Do you know how that is? What are the rates?


You also stated the competition uses hot wound process and named Eibach and H&R as examples.

Dont Eibach and H&R also use cold wound process for our application?
Wire diameter size for one. No rates, not in front of me. I will get them out as soon as I can

Whilst the original and the shortened spring have a constant load, the springs acts in a progressive way (But still a linear spring per-say, rears a slightly progressive rate on ours). This is because our Springs have three variables which decide the capacity of the spring, i.e. the wire diameter, the length and the pitch of the turns, are suitably correlated. This result is only possible, however, using suitably treated and machined special cold- wound chrome-silicon alloy steels, called high-tensile steels. The Springs also offers another great advantage: lowering as required without necessarily having to replace the original shock absorbers, when they are still efficient and calibrated.
The centre of gravity of the vehicle is consequently lowered as much as 20 to 40 cm, depending on the model. This gives the vehicle a more assertive look and, provided the shock absorbers are efficient, guarantees greater driving safety. Better road holding and a considerable decrease in roll and pitching make easier the control of the vehicle.

H&R and Eibach may have similar processes but not completely the same. They use high heat at the end of the cold wound process.

Many have already installed the springs on both the Giulia and Stelvio, they have all stated the ride is very comfortable, no real loss in ride quality and improved handling. Linear springs are more consistent in how they perform. Because of that consistency, it’s very easy to calculate out how the spring will behave under various conditions. This is what makes linear rate springs so advantageous in racing, they can be a bit stiffer but much more responsive. Progressive? Progressive springs react in more than one way, depending on what sort of demand is being made. Because there is more than one possible behavior for the spring, it’s harder to predict its behavior on any tarmac. It’s impossible to have a suspension set up that does all three things perfectly, so the name of the game is compromise. As you tip the scale towards comfort, you lose out of handling – and vice versa. Linear also gives more road feedback, this is key not only for Alfa but for driving and being connected to the road.

I don't think progressive is the end all be all. Linear can work as well as progressive these days. All these Alfa's come with Linear springs. The Giulia QV uses linear springs, it's comfortable, it handles well and it kills on the track. There is no magic pill here but spring technology has evolved since even the 90's.

ST springs for 2.0L cars have progressive rate, like H&R above and they are terrible for the car, not comfortable and lower way too much. I do not even offer them.
 

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Very good information Jason i appreciate it. Id love to have the stelvio lowered a bit but i want the benefits of handling with a lower center of gravity but dont want shock damping that is no longer optimum for the ride height. I know you've spoken about that before so hopefully these are the ticket. Im ok going kw v3 if that's the only way to truly achieve my objective but if a set if springs may actually do the trick that would be great. I have non adaptive sport suspension btw.

Appreciate the information

Mike
 

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What does having your shock absorbers be efficient and calibrated mean?

Seems like that is important to know since your explaination makes it seem as if it is the deciding factor in why the factory parts don't need replacing. I have never heard of calibrating a factory shock.

I really like you guys..ordered my tuneup parts from you...but have no clue what you are saying here. Would truly enjoy an explaination of how these terms apply and how to verify a customer's shocks are in proper calibration.
 

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What does having your shock absorbers be efficient and calibrated mean?

Seems like that is important to know since your explaination makes it seem as if it is the deciding factor in why the factory parts don't need replacing. I have never heard of calibrating a factory shock.

I really like you guys..ordered my tuneup parts from you...but have no clue what you are saying here. Would truly enjoy an explaination of how these terms apply and how to verify a customer's shocks are in proper calibration.
It appears he edited his reply to remove that recommendation of making sure we have well calibrated and efficient shocks?

Good questions though.

Jason how would we make sure our stock shocks are well calibrated?
 
Alfa romeo 164S, Giulia ti Sport Q4
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Very good information Jason i appreciate it. Id love to have the stelvio lowered a bit but i want the benefits of handling with a lower center of gravity but dont want shock damping that is no longer optimum for the ride height. I know you've spoken about that before so hopefully these are the ticket. Im ok going kw v3 if that's the only way to truly achieve my objective but if a set if springs may actually do the trick that would be great. I have non adaptive sport suspension btw.

Appreciate the information

Mike
I will be honest. I do not think ANY lowering spring will achieve what you are looking for or what others may be looking for. It's mainly for looks and yes stiffer springs and lowering gives you the enhanced 'feel" that most may believe as a performance upgrade, I'd say it's most likely it's minimal in that. You reduce travel in the shock for sure. Lowering has many effects on suspension components to geometry as I am sure you are aware of.

Full coilover is what you want to lower IMO. That said these springs do very very well. They are comfortable which is one thing lowering usually destroys but this also allows for better grip, they handle well and are designed not to degrade the shock. You do have bump stops as well as a safety net. These are part progressive rears and linear fronts.

Below as a good article. I think addresses most of the important ideas behind lowering.

 

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Thats fair. Ive wanted that magic bullet before when i was new to cars and put on springs that were highly recommended and low and behold the car was pogoing like crazy. So i then spent money on an install of Bilstein sports and compression was all messed up bottoming out. So then a third time i went with PSS10 and finally i got good compliance and handling!

After that it was coilivers... Bilstein or Ohlins. The 4 way Ohlins are truly magical with both high speed and low speed compression/rebound adjustment we actually got a smoother ride than stock while having control over 1000lb springs in the rear and 800lb in the front. Over twice stock. We could actually take off the larger antisways and get even more independence too.

Itd be nice not to have to go down the 5 thousand dollar rabbit hole but i get theres no free lunch. KW v3 isnt sounding bad although weve seen more than our share of problems with those too with spring collapse and requiring spring spacers due to poor design on audis.
 
Alfa romeo 164S, Giulia ti Sport Q4
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thats fair. Ive wanted that magic bullet before when i was new to cars and put on springs that were highly recommended and low and behold the car was pogoing like crazy. So i then spent money on an install of Bilstein sports and compression was all messed up bottoming out. So then a third time i went with PSS10 and finally i got good compliance and handling!

After that it was coilivers... Bilstein or Ohlins. The 4 way Ohlins are truly magical with both high speed and low speed compression/rebound adjustment we actually got a smoother ride than stock while having control over 1000lb springs in the rear and 800lb in the front. Over twice stock. We could actually take off the larger antisways and get even more independence too.

Itd be nice not to have to go down the 5 thousand dollar rabbit hole but i get theres no free lunch. KW v3 isnt sounding bad although weve seen more than our share of problems with those too with spring collapse and requiring spring spacers due to poor design on audis.
If you'd like to try them let me know? KW has had some issues for sure. We could also build something for you special from Intrax. The owner is an alfa freak and raced them. Might take time but it is a possibility. Another option is OEM QV springs. Otherwise Leave it alone. ;)
 

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2020 Stelvio Base RWD
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After lowering the SUV on this springs, the alignment ia in spec?
 
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