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Just don't read the comments- Mopar fanboys don't have a lot of love for Italian brands- it must be dark, depressing, and isolated up there where their heads reside!
 

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And I am completely on the other side on this one. THE LAST CARS I WOULD EVER BUY ARE CHRYSLER PRODUCTS and for a very sound reason. CHASSIS DYNAMICS! THEY ARE ALWAYS A DECADE BEHIND WITH CHASSIS TECHNOLOGY. THEY ALWAYS WEIGH 200-400 LBS MORE THAN THE COMPETITION. I have spent a day with a student in an SRT Charger just recently. Frankly, it did not feel fast and was actually boring because it was so numb due to all that excess mass. So what I had always thought turned out to be true. Prior to that, I had spent a day in a 2017 Mustang GT with a track pack. It too was heavier than my liking, but at least it communicated with the driver. So for all the fanboys of Hemi world, don't worry, there is no comparison. Surgical (well leave that to Lotus) Precision v brute strength. Those dodges could be far faster if they would lose 400 lb s but until they completely revamp their chassis design to the 21st century, the Guilia ansd even Stelvio Quads will have them for lunch in anything short of a straight line. ALFA ROMEO IS BACK!!!
 

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And I am completely on the other side on this one. THE LAST CARS I WOULD EVER BUY ARE CHRYSLER PRODUCTS and for a very sound reason. CHASSIS DYNAMICS! THEY ARE ALWAYS A DECADE BEHIND WITH CHASSIS TECHNOLOGY. THEY ALWAYS WEIGH 200-400 LBS MORE THAN THE COMPETITION. I have spent a day with a student in an SRT Charger just recently. Frankly, it did not feel fast and was actually boring because it was so numb due to all that excess mass. So what I had always thought turned out to be true. Prior to that, I had spent a day in a 2017 Mustang GT with a track pack. It too was heavier than my liking, but at least it communicated with the driver. So for all the fanboys of Hemi world, don't worry, there is no comparison. Surgical (well leave that to Lotus) Precision v brute strength. Those dodges could be far faster if they would lose 400 lb s but until they completely revamp their chassis design to the 21st century, the Guilia ansd even Stelvio Quads will have them for lunch in anything short of a straight line. ALFA ROMEO IS BACK!!!
You do realize Alfa Romeo and Chrysler are both FCA brands, right? That the expensive development of the Giorgio chassis foundation for these vehicles is the next gen design for most mainstream Dodge and Chrysler vehicles in development all the way to Grand Cherokee and the 2.0T engine is already making its way into 2 Jeep models?
 

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You do realize Alfa Romeo and Chrysler are both FCA brands, right? That the expensive development of the Giorgio chassis foundation for these vehicles is the next gen design for most mainstream Dodge and Chrysler vehicles in development all the way to Grand Cherokee and the 2.0T engine is already making its way into 2 Jeep models?
I can't wait for this to happen so that when people say a Porsche is an overpriced VW, Lexus is overpriced Toyota, etc. I can come back with AR being an overpriced Jeep! Haha
 

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I fully realize this Scale. Their current lineup recalls the exact same dinosaur mentality the company had circa 1970+ and it almost bankrupted them - again or was this the first time? Except for the Viper, Chrysler/Dodge has NEVER built a car that could really handle. I don't expect miracles from them anytime soon. Even the last gen Viper's potential was never fully realized which is too bad because I thought it was a HUGE step up from the earlier models. We will see how it goes, but until they learn to make their new models as light or lighter than their competition (something NEVER done in their entire history AFAIK) they will still be playing catchup. Someone that buys Hemi ONLY looks at HP and or HP/$$ ratio. They may quote some power/wt ratios but while good for acceleration ONLY, that is precisely what kills braking (need for HUGE heavy rotors- unsprung weight , the worst kind) and cornering They never look at curb weight. Take some laps in my Evora S with only 360 HP and get in any Big HP weight muscle car and it becomes obvious. When every student I have had that wants to do some laps in a Lotus experiences lightness, its an eye opener and SO MUCH MORE FUN!!!!) That extra 1000 lbs requires at least an extra 100 HP ....and then there is braking, how I kill those big cars.
 

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I can't wait for this to happen so that when people say a Porsche is an overpriced VW, Lexus is overpriced Toyota, etc. I can come back with AR being an overpriced Jeep! Haha
Speaking of Jeep's

Even though the Cherokee is based on the Giulietta platform they are awful similar to the Stelvio



My "Fiat" Cherokee

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A Stelvio will be next purchase. but I can safely say after I replaced the Suspension with Bilstein and a set of 18" summer tires on my Cherokee while the handling can't touch a Stelvio, the cherokee platform can be made to handle well if you set it up to do so. The only thing the Cherokee lacks is some speed but the 2019's not come with a 2.0T :big-grin
 

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Interesting Fiat badge. That will make Jeepers roll over in their graves. It is reality though. Change name to FEEP or Jiat??
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
I do refer to Stella as our 'Italian Jeep' partly because our dogs know what to do when we say "let's go in the Jeep" and you can't teach a 12 year old Rottweiler new tricks as they say!

The only reservation I had was if Q4 would provide winter traction we need due to a 1/4 mile steep driveway- mitigated with a great experience last winter.

Sad to say no representation of AR at Chrysler Nationals yesterday anywhere. That said my Alfa Romeo shirt caught attention from the Dodge boys and had a ride along in a Hellcat Charger. While I agree with VerdeVisconte often, disagree- these vehicles are like apples and oranges are to fruit and displacement old-school is a market segment of its own. Nobody does muscle performance like the US FCA brands. Giorgio architecture is the future.

I am hoping we can have a spot on the field next year for the Italian brands and think we'd have a great time!

The event embraces new and old brand fans.

Being a Mopar + Marchionne fanboy all my adult life is what brought me to 'new' AR and stirred my enthusiasm for 'old' Alfa by association.
 

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Always fascinated by barn finds there was a '69 Road Runner with only 3K miles there still original down to the dusty residue - and a guy reminiscing about his one-time youthful indulgence. Plymouth paid Warner Bros. $50K for the rights to use the caricatures on a stripped Coronet coupe and sold them like hotcakes. Anyway it was easy to visualize this factory hot rod parked by a guy that went off to Vietnam and never came home. (So many that did unappreciated and acknowledged by Jane Fonda and ilk). We all have our dreams and passions and freedom to pursue them. So many of these cars tell a story of culture, time, design (and budget), art, and emotion.

Wonder if any Stelvios will turn up in 50 years or so as classics for a new generation, revered and cherished like the 'old' Alfas.

Jeff Gast (local collector and trader) had a '57 Golden Fury barn find sold new in Harrisburg 1 owner totally preserved museum piece ultra low mileage (30K I think). He blew off the potential buyers to lament his first car, an Alfa Romeo legendary vehicle with a wistful look in his eye.

Few cars have that magic emotional attachment to them- will 'new Alfas' be able to capture that spirit? And isn't it a miracle in these days of bottom line soulless bean counting business plans that Alfa and Maserati even exist?

I will do what I can to support the success of this miraculous re-introduction of the brands.
 

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I came back to Alfa because my 1993 164L was owned during the tenure of ARDONA which meant Chrysler did the QC that got Alfa reliable. Ironically, they did a better job on Alfa than their own in house brand. It is nothing but a good thing that the European desgn and performance will be handed off to our NA products in its future iteration.



I got my license in 1978 so I was almost a generation past the big block torque beasts of the late 60's to early 70's before gas crisis neutered everything so I am a product of learning to drive a slow car fast and ended up be pretty skilled at it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to just use your right foot. I have always enjoyed doing more with less. Relatively speaking all these big HP beasts out there are gross underperformers in the big picture. They can get 505 out of 2.9 litres so I would expect us to be over a 1000 easy with these huge displacement blocks. But again, mass is the limiter.
 

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I won't call it rocket science, but I can assure you it takes something more than a right foot to drive a 60's/70's muscle or pony car fast, especially with the tires they had, and the large telephone pole magnets installed.
I would say anyone who could run one of those quickly would have no difficulty whatsoever driving a slow car very fast
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Meanwhile on the Europe Side of the Pond...

"Jeep easily beat Land Rover, which has been following a similar new-product track, as well as Honda; while Alfa Romeo had nearly double the sales of Toyota’s Lexus. Alfa Romeo climbed by 9%, to 50,284 sales, while Fiat itself dropped by 9%, to 423,899. Part of the drop was due to restricting production to successful cars; and the 500 and Panda, combined, had 29% of the A-segment in Europe." - Quoting from the article on www.allpar.com .

Continuing: "FCA broke out sales by country, with the largest gain in Spain (96%), followed by Italy (92%), the UK (77%), Germany (43%), and France (11%)." - We are fortunate to have many of these Stelvio owners participating here with us on this forum.


The gain in Spain falls mainly on the FCA plain...


https://www.allpar.com/news/2018/07/jeep-is-the-second-best-selling-fca-brand-in-europe-41413
 

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Exclusivity does not mean volume. Land Rover Discovery is just a decontented Range Rover Sport and a superb vehicle. Discovery Sport is overpriced junk with same lousy tranny as the Evoque I had. NOT WORTH THE PRICE esp v Stelvio. But.... Range Rover Products are far more hardcore than anything Maserati dreams of....and the powertrains are truly top shelf. Mine has been 100% reliable, service only. Catering to a totally different market where volume is not necessarily a positive....ask BMW and esp Audi how to dilute a brand with volume, Mercedes is on the same path.
 
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