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I have to say, I love my Stelvio QV, but this car looks amazing:


I was on the fence about whether the next car purchase would be a Giulia QV or even a 4C as I am just loving the Alfa line, but this might make me give Audi a second look.
 

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I’ve either bought (for my mom) or personally owned the: B5 S4(manual), B6 S4(manual, rs4 sway bars) and B8 S4 (w rear sport diff), the 8v S3 (w mag ride), a 2nd gen TT v6 s-line (w mag ride), an a6 4.2v8 w sport suspension.

my cousin had a B8 S5 w adaptive suspension, and my uncle currently has an SQ5.

I’ve also spent a good deal of time driving B7 RS4 (really really good), 2nd gen TTRS (great), and the older V8TT RS6.

I very seriously considered a CPO RS7 instead of my Stelvio QV.

suffice to say, Fast Audi’s have been my thing for 15ish years.

The inescapable truth: even if you option an RS with DRC suspension (trick diagonally linked active hydraulic sway bars to fight understeer, super firm ride), an Audi (other than R8) is very nose heavy. Combined with the full time, relatively forward biased nominal torque split (though this varies to some extent in RS land), this leads to prominent understeer.

also, not one of the above audi’s has any real steering feel. The steering is super accurate, but entirely numb. They have less feedback than the AMGs we’ve owned (c32, c43, glc43), or any cayman or 911. They have FAR less feedback than the stelvio qv. They corner far less neutrally and turn in mostly sucks.

that said, they are built with bank vault like solidity, and are absolute tanks with snow tires in winter. And they (esp RS models) launch like crazy off line.

Having now had my Alfa for 6 months, I sort of feel like I was living a lie. I loved my audis, still great cars, but don’t have a soul (cliche I know, but true) like the quad/qv/clovermafia edition does.

Your mileage may vary! Just the rambling thoughts of a longtime audi bro.
 

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Agreed...accept IMO all current VAG products are nose heavy with awkward weight distribution, resulting in understeer tendacies, not just the optioned out ones.

Been devoted to the Volkswagon Automotive Group since the B5 platform dropped in the A4.

Over the last 2 decades, as they changed engineering priorities (beginning with the B5.5 platform) and began locating the engine as forward as possible, often offest to one side or the other, then compensating by playing with the shock dampening and spring rates at the corners....they lost me.

Personally, I always preferred the steering feel of both VW and Porsche over Audi. IMO Audi steering has always been slightly vague and overboosted but the goodness of the platform and overall package, used to make up for it. (Owned a TT, but always preferred the steering in the GTI for instance)

...basically like how the performance of the brakes on the Stelvio combined with the basic goodness of the overall driving experience makes up for the atrocious brake pedal feel/feedback.
 

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KZ said what I would say. They are and drive heavy. Steering is numb. RS4 has big power but no sense of precision in handling. I pushed one plenty hard at The Glen a few years back 4 door muscle car. Certainly no QV. Brought it back in with smoking brakes and hot tranny....Buddy told me to hammer it!!!
 

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I've been looking at them and really admire what they've built. Love the launch color too. Having said that, they'll probably be around 130-170k out the door so a good chunk of price difference/premium compared to a Stelvio QV.
 

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If they made an RS Q5, that would be the in segment direct competition for our beloved stelvio fourleafclover green
 

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OOOHHH I lust for this but the price of $130,000 is just too much for me to make sense of it. But WOW I find it beautiful!!
 

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OOOHHH I lust for this but the price of $130,000 is just too much for me to make sense of it. But WOW I find it beautiful!!
IMHO, the new generation 6/7 design is a step back. It has reached BMW levels of busily cluttered overdesign. The previous gen RS7 was flawless.

Hell, check out the 2011 RS6, which had a Twin Turbo V10 5.0L (!!taking the evolved gallardo/R8 lump and slapping on two snails):

18015

18016

My favorite current Audi, styling wise, is the RS5 sport-back. We considered it but went clovermafia instead. Similar price.
 

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Having driven a couple of Audi S4-5-6 's at driving schools where I occasionally instruct, nice as they are interior-wise and fast as they are 0-60, they're understeering pigs. The tricks one has to do to get the damn things to turn is unbecoming of a sports sedan. I'll pass. I saw a James May quote that is on point:

"Sitting in an Alfa Romeo is like sitting in a bar in the city center in Milan. Sitting in an Audi is like being stuck in a post office in Berlin".
 

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Sad but true.

Some models are worse than others. The rear sport diff equipped models with longitudinal engines, and especially RS models with DRC and the rear diff, are meaningfully less piggy. But still, only less piggy.

I will alway take an Audi over a BMW, though. I’d rather be in a Berlin post office than covered in Hofbrau vomit in the ER ambulance motor pool at Oktoberfest in Munich :rolleyes:
 

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@alfalfa This is exactly the same question I am facing. I have lusted for an Audi RS6 Avant for many years. I have owned four Audi S4 Avants, and still own my 2008, purchased new. All the noise about the Audi RS being nose heavy, understeering, with overblown sheetmetal: all true, and all just sound and fury. It is a stupendous car. When I leased my Stelvio QV in 2019, I wanted a change, and I was pissed at Audi for not acknowledging the terrible engineering flaw of defective timing chain rails and guards on its V8. It is a catastrophic and inevitable issue. But Audis are also great vehicles. I love my Stelvio QV, and it does just about everything. Believe it or not, my Afa dealership (Alfa Romeo of Morris County (NJ)) is so good that it may inform my decision to get a 2021 Stelvio QV instead of an RS6 Avant. But time will tell. Don't let anyone tell you that the RS6 Avant is not an absolute supercar.
 

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@alfalfa This is exactly the same question I am facing. I have lusted for an Audi RS6 Avant for many years. I have owned four Audi S4 Avants, and still own my 2008, purchased new. All the noise about the Audi RS being noseheavy, understeering, with overblown sheetmetal: all true, and all just sound and fury. It is a stupendous car. When I leased my Stelvio QV in 2019, I wanted a change, and I was pissed at Audi for not acknowledging the terrible engineering flaw of defective timing chain rails and guards on its V8. It is a catastrophic and inevitable issue. But Audis are also great vehicles. I love my Stelvio QV, and it does just about everything. Believe it or not, my Afa dealership (Alfa Romeo of Morris County (NJ)) is so good that it may inform my decision to get a 2021 Stelvio QV instead of an RS6 Avant. But time will tell. Don't let anyone tell you that the RS6 Avant is not an absolute supercar.
I lost an s4 v8 to that very issue. Thank god I had bought an extension when the CPO warranty expired. Fix was $21k all in. This was after telling me for 6 months that it wasn’t down on power or Broken despite wandering idle and oil consumption. They had done chain rebuild under cpo warranty a couple years earlier. Engine had around 98k mi when it failed.

Totally agree RS audis are awesome. They are simply are nose heavy and will understeer relative to more centrally weighted and/or rear torque biased designs. (And imho, they’ve gotten uglier recently, one assumes in pursuit of BMW into the smoldering depths of design hell lol)
 

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A supercar does not understeer like a pig. Grossly overpriced for what it is. Seems the germans have morphed into the US muscle car mania. Frankly, 75 years later, I still don't trust Germany. I gave them a try and came away understanding what BMW really stood for...including arrogant pride about their invincible designs.. Beemers blew DEF tanks and prop shafts, Audi terminates timing chains, Porsche detonates motors as does BMW, Mercedes subframes rot out BADLY......there is NOTHING superior about them except the difficulty it takes to decipher and repair them.
 

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A supercar does not understeer like a pig. Grossly overpriced for what it is. Seems the germans have morphed into the US muscle car mania. Frankly, 75 years later, I still don't trust Germany. I gave them a try and came away understanding what BMW really stood for...including arrogant pride about their invincible designs.. Beemers blew DEF tanks and prop shafts, Audi terminates timing chains, Porsche detonates motors as does BMW, Mercedes subframes rot out BADLY......there is NOTHING superior about them except the difficulty it takes to decipher and repair them.
Did the rs4 sedan you tracked have DRC suspension? In a track setting it makes a huge difference wrt understeer. Newer S/RS audis with aluminum blocks and improved torque vectoring have made noticeable improvements.

the Germany auto hate writ large, like any generalizing, is silly.

go drive a cayman gt4 and find something to hate about it! Let me know! ?
 

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I lost an s4 v8 to that very issue. Thank god I had bought an extension when the CPO warranty expired. Fix was $21k all in. This was after telling me for 6 months that it wasn’t down on power or Broken despite wandering idle and oil consumption. They had done chain rebuild under cpo warranty a couple years earlier. Engine had around 98k mi when it failed.

Totally agree RS audis are awesome. They are simply are nose heavy and will understeer relative to more centrally weighted and/or rear torque biased designs. (And imho, they’ve gotten uglier recently, one assumes in pursuit of BMW into the smoldering depths of design hell lol)
@KZquad18 My timing chain/guides/rails problems have not begun yet. But I live in fear. I have about 90,000 miles, and have maintained the car as if it were family. I had a lease from new with factory warranty, then bought out the residual (for the first time ever, because the car is so great, and special-ordered from the factory), and then got a factory pre-owned warranty. That warranty has expired. When you say you lost the S4, did the CPO repair fix it? What was the upshot? Sounds like two catastrophic repairs occurred. Did you keep the car?
 

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@KZquad18 My timing chain/guides/rails problems have not begun yet. But I live in fear. I have about 90,000 miles, and have maintained the car as if it were family. I had a lease from new with factory warranty, then bought out the residual (for the first time ever, because the car is so great, and special-ordered from the factory), and then got a factory pre-owned warranty. That warranty has expired. When you say you lost the S4, did the CPO repair fix it? What was the upshot? Sounds like two catastrophic repairs occurred. Did you keep the car?
the chain work was done under CPO, and fixed it for a time.

when the CPO expired, I bought an Audi Pure Protection (gold tier i think) warranty, which is almost like RE CPOing he car. They are not always available, depends on car, mileage, age, etc.

eventually, those whole engine had to be replaced with a brand new crate motor from audi. They fought like hell but eventually it was done under warranty. Engine was down on compression in 6 of 8 cylinders. I was told that the conrod bearings developed too much play, which allowed the pistons to score the cylinder walls enough to impact compression and to consume oil.

I do have some cool videos from the new engine going in though lol!

I kept it for a while, loved the car, but sold it to raise funds for my wife’s engagement ring 5ish years ago. We moved to city soon after and I didn’t need a car until this past summer when we move to Hobo and had parking spots with condo. I Sold it to a young guy with a wife/baby, he got a mint imola yellow S4 with a manual and a brand new engine, good safe family car. Still miss it but it wasn’t anything like the QV.
 

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KZ, I have spent much time in many Porsches. I totally respect their performance chops but I HAVE NEVER LIKED THE 911 LOOK...EVER. Some say timelsss, I have always thought it was time to actually not make them all look the same. I liked the 928 and the 924/944/968 cars.

The RS4 was HEAVY... I hate heavy "sports cars" that overwhelm the excessive weight with more power.

"eventually, those whole engine had to be replaced with a brand new crate motor from audi. They fought like hell but eventually it was done under warranty. Engine was down on compression in 6 of 8 cylinders. I was told that the conrod bearings developed too much play, which allowed the pistons to score the cylinder walls enough to impact compression and to consume oil." They hate to admit their flawed designs more than any other country. Nothing silly about a certain level of distrust...they earned it.
 

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You, sir, are an absolute gem. This forum/community is a more colorful, knowledgeable, combative and entertaining (if volatile) place as a result of your involvement.
 
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