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It's pretty obvious, during the unprecedentedly fast development time in the Giorgio platform, the engineers never once assumed the cars wouldn't be driven most every day. Seems like something like that doesn't need to be accounted for in the engineering..but it does.

Definitely an "Alfa quirk". Not just because if this issue, the battery problems and the rest, most come down to not being driven enough. Cannot think of another car off hand that requires being driven to be reliable.
 

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This is true but check the engine repository thread. Unfortunately its happening with daily driver cars as well including daily hard driven shop cars too. Right now theres sonmany theories floating around and almost superstitious levels of attempts to get it to not occur ( not using remote start anymore, driving off without idling, etc etc) but the reality is i dont see we have been able to narrow down a likely suspect yet.






This is an interesting video that may explain a possibility but i wouldn't put my money on it either...

 

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Looking for one solution is a massive mistake. It doesn't exist. Just because a solution doesn't work in every case doesn't mean it's invalid all the time.

Multiple problems =multiple solutions, all of which will work or not based on variables, all of which haven't been nailed down. Just because the end result of the problem is the same doesn't mean the way it happened is. Especially with engines...alot of ways to make one fail.

The biggest reason it is so hard is..these are primarily mechanical issues but the manufactuers want to fix it with software revisions...because it is cheaper.

This is not an Alfa issue, it is industry wide.

Also..it's less common with Alfa's then alot of other cars currently, way less common. And Alfa is being more reasonable with repairs, at least they aren't refusing to replace engines due to not knowing the cause of failure. Other manufactuers are telling customers to wait till the original cause is found,...don't want to replace an engine with one that might have the same thing happen again after-all...so, park and wait for what might be years. Definitely months. Have a couple clients with that brand everyone thinks is so reliable that have had dead engines, for 3 months now. One car is 4 months old with 2000 miles the other 5 with 800, the manufacturer won't replace the engine - yet - because they don't know what caused the failure in the original. (Which is a lie, they do know what caused it but want a software fix for a engineering problem and won't listen to reason). The problems at Ford are so very much worse but in the same vein.




Do a search for the VW Atlas, people are having multiple engine replacements. There is also a developing trend of catalytic converters going bad for unknown reason in VW/Audi's.

This isn't even touching the continuing problems Kia/Hyundai have have with engine fires..since 2015. Seriously..2015..still happening with new ones.
 

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My 2022 with 650 miles has a loud tick accompanied by a rougher idle for the first few minutes after not being driven for a few days. Sounds like an injector to me. No CELs and clears up after being driven for a bit. The 2020+ have the port-injection for startup so I wonder if it's something in that system. If I drive it every day it's fine, but if it sits for a few days then the first startup I get the issue. It's not bad enough that I'm going to take it to the dealer yet, but will see if I can track it down.

The 2020+ cars are not immune to the issues.
 

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A lot of good comments! The only things I would add here are:
1. The fact that several producers have started to add port injection as well to the DFI set-up is indicative of a set of issues. It could be that they want to push the environmental requirements response envelope by doing that, or it could be to better handle the observed carbon build-up - or it could be both. Whatever the primary reason(s), it would (at least partially fix the carbon build-up issue for low milage motors, but most likely for all).
2. What the real culprit is producing the build-up is a topic for discussion for some time. But this is really not that important either.
The bottom line is: If you have a DFI car with a single injection set-up you should anticipate carbon build-up. A high compression ratio or turbo configuration will (likely) add to the risks. As a consequence you should expect that you need to plan for some "cleaning actions" during ownership. When and at which intervals, depends on many variables. CEL codes being thrown by the CPU or misfires could be indications that actions are required. And yes, it is definately not just an Alfa issue.
That is my take on it.
 

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Never had any issues with my 2018 Stelvio QV. Had tons of issues with my prior BMWs. Ignore the noise from your anti-Alfa friends and find a better service dept. This vehicle is head and shoulders better than any BMW, Audi, Mercedes, and Porsche…unless you want to pay double the price.
 
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Discussion Starter · #67 ·
A lot of good comments! The only things I would add here are:
1. The fact that several producers have started to add port injection as well to the DFI set-up is indicative of a set of issues. It could be that they want to push the environmental requirements response envelope by doing that, or it could be to better handle the observed carbon build-up - or it could be both. Whatever the primary reason(s), it would (at least partially fix the carbon build-up issue for low milage motors, but most likely for all).
2. What the real culprit is producing the build-up is a topic for discussion for some time. But this is really not that important either.
The bottom line is: If you have a DFI car with a single injection set-up you should anticipate carbon build-up. A high compression ratio or turbo configuration will (likely) add to the risks. As a consequence you should expect that you need to plan for some "cleaning actions" during ownership. When and at which intervals, depends on many variables. CEL codes being thrown by the CPU or misfires could be indications that actions are required. And yes, it is definately not just an Alfa issue.
That is my take on it.
Any ideas of how to clean the carbon build up??…..after complaining to Alfa cares whatever the dealer told me to bring the car to them….they say you need new spark plugs…..almost $1000…!!!….the funny thing is that I had bought…(from them!!) the spark plugs….around 270???….I wonder how many hours they were planning on billing me.
I told them to install the spark plugs…..end of story….it costed me nothing….they said they were going to bill the installation thru the warranty….scary!!!!
 

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Update on my cold start misfire issue. Its has been getting progressively worse. At first it was random but always after a 1 week of no use. Then it started to do it every time I left it over 1 week. So then I started doing the on/off/on and then start thing and that worked for like 5 months. Then it started throwing CEL even tho it felt like it was running fine and I'd have to stop and start it (and clear the codes..)

So I was due for my yearly oil service and I called around and found a dealer willing to give me a loaner for the service and to check my cold start misfire. I drove it all the way to the dealer on 5 cylinders and it was running really bad but I never turned it off so the dealer could see the problem. The dealer called me 3 days later saying that the engine control module is bad and they are waiting for the part but should be done by tuesday. Fingers crossed and thank god for warranty, sounds expensive.

Still waiting on to see how things turn out before I give this dealer a thumbs up but so far I'm liking my loaner. Its a 2018 Maserati Levante. Pretty sweet SUV. Not as fast, nor not as thrilling but what a sweet sounding SUV. I wish my QV would pop and burble and sounds better at redline than my QV.
 

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Discussion Starter · #69 ·
Update on my cold start misfire issue. Its has been getting progressively worse. At first it was random but always after a 1 week of no use. Then it started to do it every time I left it over 1 week. So then I started doing the on/off/on and then start thing and that worked for like 5 months. Then it started throwing CEL even tho it felt like it was running fine and I'd have to stop and start it (and clear the codes..)
Could you elaborate on the procedure you use to clear the CEL light?
So I was due for my yearly oil service and I called around and found a dealer willing to give me a loaner for the service and to check my cold start misfire. I drove it all the way to the dealer on 5 cylinders and it was running really bad but I never turned it off so the dealer could see the problem. The dealer called me 3 days later saying that the engine control module is bad and they are waiting for the part but should be done by tuesday. Fingers crossed and thank god for warranty, sounds expensive.

Still waiting on to see how things turn out before I give this dealer a thumbs up but so far I'm liking my loaner. Its a 2018 Maserati Levante. Pretty sweet SUV. Not as fast, nor not as thrilling but what a sweet sounding SUV. I wish my QV would pop and burble and sounds better at redline than my QV.
Well, keep us posted!!!….hopefully that will fix the issue. Although you wont know for sure until a few weeks later, after you dont drive it for a week I assume.

By the way, I have never been able to “reset” the computer so that the DNA selector works again

I got the OBD fusion application that has good reviews but when it shows the misfire codes, I click erase, and after checking again the vodes are still there….of course after it comed back from the dealer, those codes ste gone.
Could you elaborate on that procedure that you use to clear the CEL light?
 

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Well, keep us posted!!!….hopefully that will fix the issue. Although you wont know for sure until a few weeks later, after you dont drive it for a week I assume.

By the way, I have never been able to “reset” the computer so that the DNA selector works again

I got the OBD fusion application that has good reviews but when it shows the misfire codes, I click erase, and after checking again the vodes are still there….of course after it comed back from the dealer, those codes ste gone.
Could you elaborate on that procedure that you use to clear the CEL light?

Dang.. I know the pain of not being able to clear the codes but for the past month, I've kept my OBD2 reader in the car. My OBD2 reader is just a two button cheap(ish) reader that I bought at the local auto parts store. Here's the model. its an actron CP9125. I think it was like $50, its bright yellow and like I said only has two buttons but it does the trick.

I did have the gateway bypass in my car but I've since taken it out. Maybe since I had the bypass at one time it allows me to clear the codes?!?! If you still can't get it to work, the bypass is cheap but make sure you get two sets of the extension cables. You do not want to go thru the hassle of getting to the that thing again..
 
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