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Long been a suspicion the 2018 engines were under-rated. Where-as the new ones are not.

Legally the manufacturer can say it has 290hp when it has 300, but can't say it has 300 when it has 290. Be interesting to see dyno results between a 2022 and 2018, if the new engine makes less the advertised power.....you might be able to get a buy back or something. I doubt Alfa is that dumb though, to restrict the engine that much and not update the power numbers.

Really it's probably transmission programming which.. not much can be done other than trying things like a go pedal as suggested, maybe that will help. Or beating it everytime you drive, it is adaptive, might not make it like a 2018 it was but it should get better.


Example from mine and a friend's cars how tranny programming can effect things and can be changed with no way for the consumer to protest.

My VW Eos, DSG VR6, sued VW to lemon the vehicle after literally breaking half the gearbox (it works by dividing the odd and even gears into two different shafts, I broke one of the shafts as the tranny downshifted into a corner...it wasn't fun. ) and VW didn't want to replace it under warranty. Said it was how I drove combined with the weight of the audio system I had installed, caused the tranny to work too hard, overheat and fail. (Might have been how I drove..but the tranny allowed it, encouraged it even. Truth is, the way the ZF in my Stelvio shifts reminds me alot of how that DSG shifted except that DSG was more agressive and faster with arguably better programming. Was an amazing tranny till it broke.)

Like I said....sued, won, they bought back the car. About 6 months after getting my Eos back VW suddenly announced a recall for all DSG equipped Eos, GTI, Jetta/sportwagon(s). The official recall reason was to fix a faulty temp sensor, however the transmission programming was updated with new software as part of the recall also.

My buddy had a DSG equipped GTI at the time, after the recall he said his car sucked to drive. All the fun was gone, the tranny slurred between gears didn't snap off shifts as fast anymore and didn't downshift nearly as aggressively. When he pressed VW about it they told him all changes are for better heat management and reliability. He said it wasn't the same car, VW said it is, just with new software...he also sued. He lost. YMMV.

Important thing to understand....nobody else I have ever heard complained about the shifting changing after the recall. My buddy basically got laughed at for saying his DSG GTI was slower after the recall on the VW forums. My opinion was he was right, to this day, he's right. A brand new DSG doesn't shift as well as the one I had, part of why I haven't ever been tempted to get another one.

Sorry you feel this way about your car and genuinely hope a go pedal or something like it will help. Good chance it will, since making the throttle more agressive should make the tranny more agressive also. Fingers crossed. 🤞
 

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Im in New Jersey and more eager now to possibly test drive another forum member’s 2022 Stelvio.

What Alfa has sone here is borderline unacceptable. The fact that not enough are complaining doesnt help things and only serves to possibly make things worse if Alfa thinks people are okay with transmission’s behavior.

Quick story. My brother takes the Stelvio for an ice cream run. He is not a “car guy” at all. Gets back and unprompted or asked he says the car is slow. Takes too long to react. This coming from someone who doesnt really look for these things.

Going from what thetransmission felt like in the 2018 to the 2022 is not acceptable Alfa. My wife who can care less even pointed it out.

Im really almost starting to feel duped. I bought the same car but they behave completely different. Its no longer the same car.

Im almost convinced Alfa is restricting power.The more time behind the wheel the more I see it. This is not as fast as my 2018 was. On rare occasion i get a glimpse of the power ive come to expect but every other time is not fully there. Transmission programming is bad and downright awful in comparison to what it was.

I need help in addressing this as im growing increasingly frustrated. Dealer says its as expected, test drove a different 2022 and it drives the same.

Driven it hard, still no change.

Whats my next course of action if this is in fact “normal” for a 2022? This is not the same Stelvio i bought in 2018.
I am in Madison NJ. I don’t have a ‘22. I have an ‘18 Ti, stock engine except for a Supersprint exhaust. If you like we can drive them back to back. As a bonus we can do a 4C or a gtv6 run as well. The auto Milano, well it makes beautiful noise and goes fast down the highway for 154hp but it no definition of quick.

Where are you located.

I’d call Jason at Alfissimo and ask him if the people at Squadra can shed some light. It may be in the ecu and not the TCU. I’d not want to tune a car in warranty but that is a separate topic.

Q. How does the car feel in dynamic mode shifting manually. It almost seems like you car runs in A all the time! Who is the dealer? Fullerton, Performance or the one in Bergen county?

Sorry for your frustration. Some 2018 cars have reportee dyno peaks over 300hp and I have read somewhere that some of the early ‘18 cars, or maybe it was Guilias had more power? I remain thrilled with my 2018, I had sold it and bought it back.
 

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The programming for how the tranny shifts has changed. It's more "refined"now , upshifts
faster, downshifts slower. Not a day and night difference but it changed. Most people prefer the new algorithms, they are alot more generic and behaves like other "luxury/sport SUVs" now.

Drive it hard, every time it downshifts or does anything you don't like, nail the gas like it's a disobedient child and you are a "spare the rod spoil the child" zealot. Literally beat the transmission for doing the wrong thing, eventually it should learn. (By beat I mean slam the gas, maybe slam it 2-3 times if it doesn't respond fast enough...beat it)


You think the changes to the Stelvio are a bit much?

Got a chance to drive a Grecale at an event. My dear Lord they turned the Giorgio platform into luxo-barge. More like a Lexus than any Alfa. I thought the Grand Cherokee drove better..and had better structural rigidity. Not sure how they stretched the platform different then Jeep but....it isn't good.


Like to apologize for getting angry and leaving, I won't be arguing anymore even if it means ignoring blatantly bad information.
Figured the standard Grecale would be softer and perhaps heavier. I didn’t think they stretched it? My ‘18 does not have a sunroof so just a bit lighter and not top heavy, a bit more athletic, like my girls that way
 

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It is a 3 inch longer wheelbase.

There is noticable chassis float. Literally like a 90's full size Cadillac. Disappointed doesn't even cover it.

This quote describes it while spinning it positively. The car is about a smooth ride.

It's all in the ride. Even in Trofeo spec, with its standard air suspension and 21-inch wheels, the Grecale is, in its default GT drive mode setting, more compliant than a Macan. It rolls and pitches noticeably—the hood rears skyward like an old muscle car's when you mash the gas from a standing start, unleashing an edgy snarl from the Nettuno V-6
Even in the top of the line performance model...the car is all about the ride. Genuinely hope this is a Maserati thing and not how Stellantis will be tailoring thier vehicles' ride/handling balance going forward. Still even as a Maserati thing...IMO, a Maserati should not exhibit chassis float. As I type this I realize saying it's like a Caddy doesn't cover it...in the standard drive mode, the air suspension has moments it feels like a 1980 Lincoln Continental.

Anyone who thinks the Stelvio is sprung too soft and leans too much in corners will feel like they are driving a horseless wagon in the Grecale. It leans like those card in 1930's gangster movies, does not inspire confidence. Hate saying that. Though I guess it is good....pretty sure the Maserati won't steal many Alfa customers.

Seriously, were I in the market for a car that rode better then it handled... I'de get a Volvo first. From the drive a Volvo has a better controlled suspension setup...which should be
borderline blasphemy...but isn't.

Only vehicle ever impressed me less on a ride and drive was the Ford Excursion and that's cause the brakes on the base Excursion were so bad, several salespeople rear-ended each other at stop lights. Grain of salt of course...my opinion is that cars that prioritize ride over handling suck. Hard.
 

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Im in New Jersey and more eager now to possibly test drive another forum member’s 2022 Stelvio.

What Alfa has sone here is borderline unacceptable. The fact that not enough are complaining doesnt help things and only serves to possibly make things worse if Alfa thinks people are okay with transmission’s behavior.

Quick story. My brother takes the Stelvio for an ice cream run. He is not a “car guy” at all. Gets back and unprompted or asked he says the car is slow. Takes too long to react. This coming from someone who doesnt really look for these things.

Going from what thetransmission felt like in the 2018 to the 2022 is not acceptable Alfa. My wife who can care less even pointed it out.

Im really almost starting to feel duped. I bought the same car but they behave completely different. Its no longer the same car.

Im almost convinced Alfa is restricting power.The more time behind the wheel the more I see it. This is not as fast as my 2018 was. On rare occasion i get a glimpse of the power ive come to expect but every other time is not fully there. Transmission programming is bad and downright awful in comparison to what it was.

I need help in addressing this as im growing increasingly frustrated. Dealer says its as expected, test drove a different 2022 and it drives the same.

Driven it hard, still no change.

Whats my next course of action if this is in fact “normal” for a 2022? This is not the same Stelvio i bought in 2018.
Go to manager and demand a buyback. Also demand to know PRECISELY HOW THEY CHANGED THE PROGRAMMING! ASK THAT THEY INSTALL THE OLDER PROGRAMMING?? In other words, politely bitch. I did this with my 2015 Evoque 2 dr Dynamic because of the hellacious ZF9 speed. After 4-5 reprogramming attempts. Took it on the chin with trade in, but they sold me my 2016 RRS at Invoice to soften the blow considerably
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Long been a suspicion the 2018 engines were under-rated. Where-as the new ones are not.

Legally the manufacturer can say it has 290hp when it has 300, but can't say it has 300 when it has 290. Be interesting to see dyno results between a 2022 and 2018, if the new engine makes less the advertised power.....you might be able to get a buy back or something. I doubt Alfa is that dumb though, to restrict the engine that much and not update the power numbers.

Really it's probably transmission programming which.. not much can be done other than trying things like a go pedal as suggested, maybe that will help. Or beating it everytime you drive, it is adaptive, might not make it like a 2018 it was but it should get better.


Example from mine and a friend's cars how tranny programming can effect things and can be changed with no way for the consumer to protest.

My VW Eos, DSG VR6, sued VW to lemon the vehicle after literally breaking half the gearbox (it works by dividing the odd and even gears into two different shafts, I broke one of the shafts as the tranny downshifted into a corner...it wasn't fun. ) and VW didn't want to replace it under warranty. Said it was how I drove combined with the weight of the audio system I had installed, caused the tranny to work too hard, overheat and fail. (Might have been how I drove..but the tranny allowed it, encouraged it even. Truth is, the way the ZF in my Stelvio shifts reminds me alot of how that DSG shifted except that DSG was more agressive and faster with arguably better programming. Was an amazing tranny till it broke.)

Like I said....sued, won, they bought back the car. About 6 months after getting my Eos back VW suddenly announced a recall for all DSG equipped Eos, GTI, Jetta/sportwagon(s). The official recall reason was to fix a faulty temp sensor, however the transmission programming was updated with new software as part of the recall also.

My buddy had a DSG equipped GTI at the time, after the recall he said his car sucked to drive. All the fun was gone, the tranny slurred between gears didn't snap off shifts as fast anymore and didn't downshift nearly as aggressively. When he pressed VW about it they told him all changes are for better heat management and reliability. He said it wasn't the same car, VW said it is, just with new software...he also sued. He lost. YMMV.

Important thing to understand....nobody else I have ever heard complained about the shifting changing after the recall. My buddy basically got laughed at for saying his DSG GTI was slower after the recall on the VW forums. My opinion was he was right, to this day, he's right. A brand new DSG doesn't shift as well as the one I had, part of why I haven't ever been tempted to get another one.

Sorry you feel this way about your car and genuinely hope a go pedal or something like it will help. Good chance it will, since making the throttle more agressive should make the tranny more agressive also. Fingers crossed. 🤞
Thanks for sharing. Very insightful and seems likely to be what I'm experiencing. I have some updates to share that i'll do below.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
I am in Madison NJ. I don’t have a ‘22. I have an ‘18 Ti, stock engine except for a Supersprint exhaust. If you like we can drive them back to back. As a bonus we can do a 4C or a gtv6 run as well. The auto Milano, well it makes beautiful noise and goes fast down the highway for 154hp but it no definition of quick.

Where are you located.

I’d call Jason at Alfissimo and ask him if the people at Squadra can shed some light. It may be in the ecu and not the TCU. I’d not want to tune a car in warranty but that is a separate topic.

Q. How does the car feel in dynamic mode shifting manually. It almost seems like you car runs in A all the time! Who is the dealer? Fullerton, Performance or the one in Bergen county?

Sorry for your frustration. Some 2018 cars have reportee dyno peaks over 300hp and I have read somewhere that some of the early ‘18 cars, or maybe it was Guilias had more power? I remain thrilled with my 2018, I had sold it and bought it back.
I'm not far. I'm more interested in the 2022 but may end up taking you up on that offer! To sum it up, N feels more like A, and D is better but the issues i've explained are still there. Got it from Englewood Cliffs. I'm going to be contacting them again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 · (Edited)
Update:

Drove a family member's 2022 Veloce who I actually referred over to the same dealer. His (wife's car) transmission feels different. Didn't get a lot of time behind the wheel but enough to pick up on a few things. It's not immediately noticeable but I did find differences.

His car seemed to have more grunt. So without needing to downshift, you can feel the car accelerating more as you increase pedal input. Mine reacts less with the same pedal input. So I didn't feel like I had to give as much throttle for the car to do more. Another thing that I called out on here are the dips in torque before and after each gear change. His car didn't seem to have the same issue here or at least it was much less apparent. These are things that kind of stuck out for me in the short amount of time I drove it.

Keep in mind, that I keep using phrases like "seems" and "feels" because when comparing it doesn't jump out at you and its subtle but enough to where its noticeable. It just hard sometimes to differentiate all of it.

At WOT I didn't or couldn't sense much of a difference there but it's the normal, run around and about driving that is where i'm picking up on most of these issues. I'm hoping this isn't just me at this point but I'm confident the tranny felt different with his car. Maybe this is good news but just worried the dealer is going play it down and not do anything.

Finally, unrelated I suppose, but I definitely noticed more of a whine with his engine. Almost like a CAI type of whine. Not clear why or what it was but picked up on it with the windows down. I don't hear that with mine. Same car, same year, same spec, same wheels, bought around same time, practically identical cars.

Any advice on what I should say to the dealer and how I should go about pushing back on them to do something?
 

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What’s the build date on his vs yours? Even if purchased around the same time the build dates could be months apart. Maybe a running software change to the transmission sometime in MY2022? Really just speculation though.
 

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Update:

Drove a family member's 2022 Veloce who I actually referred over to the same dealer. His (wife's car) transmission feels different. Didn't get a lot of time behind the wheel but enough to pick up on a few things. It's not immediately noticeable but I did find differences.

His car seemed to have more grunt. So without needing to downshift, you can feel the car accelerating more as you increase pedal input. Mine reacts less with the same pedal input. So I didn't feel like I had to give as much throttle for the car to do more. Another thing that I called out on here are the dips in torque before and after each gear change. His car didn't seem to have the same issue here or at least it was much less apparent. These are things that kind of stuck out for me in the short amount of time I drove it.

Keep in mind, that I keep using phrases like "seems" and "feels" because when comparing it doesn't jump out at you and its subtle but enough to where its noticeable. It just hard sometimes to differentiate all of it.

At WOT I didn't or couldn't sense much of a difference there but it's the normal, run around and about driving that is where i'm picking up on most of these issues. I'm hoping this isn't just me at this point but I'm confident the tranny felt different with his car. Maybe this is good news but just worried the dealer is going play it down and not do anything.

Finally, unrelated I suppose, but I definitely noticed more of a whine with his engine. Almost like a CAI type of whine. Not clear why or what it was but picked up on it with the windows down. I don't hear that with mine. Same car, same year, same spec, same wheels, bought around same time, practically identical cars.

Any advice on what I should say to the dealer and how I should go about pushing back on them to do something?
I would approach the dealer and simply ask if they could install the latest software update or “flash” as the techs call it. You may or may not have the latest version, and if you don’t, it’s worth trying an update.

It would give you an opportunity to start fresh with new programming. Then drive your Stelvio like you normally do and let the ZF8 learn your driving habits.

The challenge you face with asking for a more substantial remedy is that the dealer has to make a decision if your car is significantly different from other ‘22 Strelvio’s, or not.

The manufacturer is not going to do anything for a perceived “characteristic” if that characteristic is essentially similar to other models with the same equipment and model year.

When dealing with subtleties, like “feel” it’s always challenging for the customer and the dealer.

Based on your description and what others have said, it’s highly likely there is no mechanical issue, just a matter of software and how your ZF8 is adapting which is a process that takes some time.

As a side note, I would recommend you turn off your start/stop, every time you drive and put your setting in Dynamic mode. I personally don’t see any reason to ever use Natural mode, ever. (A mode is identical to N other than throttle mapping and torque management.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Update:

Finally got the car in for another service appoint after being turned away from the first one. Dealer has given me a 2022 Stelvio Ti. I can honestly say now the difference between them is practically night and day (relatively speaking of course). In other words, there is zero chance at this point that there isn’t something different about my car compared to other 2022 Stelvios. I’m happy, yet mad that something like this can even happen.

None of my car’s flawed characteristics are present in this loaner. Everything I’ve liked about Stelvios since my 2018 are present in this 2022 loaner. This loan’s transmission is on par with what I’ve come to expect with my pervious 2018 Stelvio.

Here are my update observations since having had a few days of driving time in this new 2022 loaner. I know I’ve focused on the transmission all this time but I’m getting the sense now there may be more or something other than the transmission. This loaner Stelvio has power/torque and “grunt” down low in the RPMs that my car just doesn’t. You also easily hear the turbo more in this car as well. You hear the whine of the turbo spinning up and spinning back down which you cant make out in mine. Noticed this in my family members 2022 that I drove as well. Gear shifts are crisper, faster and harder. There is much less, if any dips in power/torque between gear changes. Dabs on the gas pedal get a reaction from the car. Increased inputs in the gas pedal along the entire throttle travel length produces an equal response from the car’s reaction. It answers to short and rapid inputs accordingly, all of which is missing in my car.

You don’t get any of this in my car. It’s the opposite.

After my second visit for this issue, the dealer (or the tech really) isn’t outright dismissing my claims but not acknowledging them either. However, if you drive the cars back-to-back, the differences to me are blaring obvious and at least I can easily point to the specific details now. All of the shortcomings are so obvious to me now that this raises safety and fuel efficiency concerns for me. My Stelvio has to constantly make up for low power with frequent downshift and unnecessary and heavier throttle inputs.

With all of this new info, I’m suspecting something more than tranny here as well. Maybe even the turbo. Dealer is updating software and we’ll see the outcome but I’m not very confident a software update will fix whatever this is. Will have to let this play out but for almost 4 months now I’ve been driving a brand new and IMO flawed car and would have never even known it.

Want to thank the folks who have helped on here. Now hopefully it gets fixed.
 

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This is why it is so important to compare cars and why it is unconscionable for a dealer to not offer a test drive when dealing with this type of issue.

Never been happier to be wrong! Finger crossed it gets sorted out quickly now.
An equivalent model test drive is always where dealers should start when talking about subtleties like "feel" as I mentioned above. It's exactly what manufacturer's reps also do in situations like this. We need to be able to establish if the vehicle in question is substantially different, or not. Most of the time, the answer is clear.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 · (Edited)
So picked up the Stelvio today after a "software update". Car is the same. Jumping back into our car from the loaner and immediately we again notice the differences.

Dealer says car has no faults or error codes and nothing mechanically is wrong with it. Saying there is nothing more they can do. They advised to call Alfa Care, which I did. Waiting for a call back from a supervisor but this isn't looking good as they're play the nothing is wrong card...
 

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So picked up the Stelvio today after a "software update". Car is the same. Jumping back into our car from the loaner and immediately we again notice the differences.

Dealer says car has no faults or error codes and nothing mechanically is wrong with it. Saying there is nothing more they can do. They advised to call Alfa Care, which I did. Waiting for a call back from a supervisor but this isn't looking good as they're play the nothing is wrong card...
You need to drive it for a couple weeks and let the software do it's thing with the transmission and ECU learning. Also, just to verify, are you using 91+ octane? Are you using dynamic mode? Do you have the auto start / stop set to off?
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 · (Edited)
Highly doubt at this point driving it and thinking any adaptation will make any difference. My car has noticeably less power, less low end torque and maybe even across the range. The loaner I got was a 2022 Ti with 35 miles on the odometer and it was ready to go out the gate.

You know you have a problem when your wife starts to point how much slower her car is and how she has to push the gas pedal to the floor get any real power out of it. Her comment was she's never had to push the pedal to the floor before.

In D mode the loaner was excellent. Zipping through gears and answering your foot with quick responses and lots of power when needed. Reminding me again of the fun and enjoy I had with my 2018 Stelvio.
 

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Highly doubt at this point driving it and thinking any adaptation will make any difference. My car has noticeably less power, less low end torque and maybe even across the range. The loaner I got was a 2022 Ti with 35 miles on the odometer and it was ready to go out the gate.

You know you have a problem when your wife starts to point how much slower her car is and how she has to push the gas pedal to the floor get any real power out of it. Her comment was she's never had to push the pedal to the floor before.

In D mode the loaner was excellent. Zipping through gears and answering your foot with quick responses and lots of power when needed. Reminding me again of the fun and enjoy I had with my 2018 Stelvio.
Not trying to be disrespectful, but again, are you using 91+ octane, D mode, and turning off auto start / stop?

I worked for FCA for 30 years and retired so I no longer have skin in the game, still, I want to find out a solution for what you are experiencing. My 2022 Veloce is everything I hoped it would be. There is no reason for yours to not perform as well as your 2018. They haven't changed anything tuning wise from everything I have read.
 

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Highly doubt at this point driving it and thinking any adaptation will make any difference. My car has noticeably less power, less low end torque and maybe even across the range. The loaner I got was a 2022 Ti with 35 miles on the odometer and it was ready to go out the gate.

You know you have a problem when your wife starts to point how much slower her car is and how she has to push the gas pedal to the floor get any real power out of it. Her comment was she's never had to push the pedal to the floor before.

In D mode the loaner was excellent. Zipping through gears and answering your foot with quick responses and lots of power when needed. Reminding me again of the fun and enjoy I had with my 2018 Stelvio.
I had one other thought on something you can check yourself: In the performance page screen you can choose the screen to display in real time a boost gauge, horsepower gauge, and torque gauge as you drive.

My ‘22 Veloce will regularly show 28 psi. of peak boost at full throttle on 91 octane fuel.

What does your boost gauge show?
What does your loaner vehicle gauge show under the same conditions- same elevation, ambient temp, engine also fully warmed up, same DNA setting, presumably the same octane fuel?
 
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