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Highly doubt at this point driving it and thinking any adaptation will make any difference. My car has noticeably less power, less low end torque and maybe even across the range. The loaner I got was a 2022 Ti with 35 miles on the odometer and it was ready to go out the gate.
What is the build date on your car, and what is the build date on the loaner?
What option differences are there between the 2 cars?

Looks like your loaner was a Ti, while yours is a Veloce.
What wheels are on your car, and what wheels are on the Ti?
If the Ti has the 20" upgrades, and your Veloce has the 20: standard, then that's a fair comparison.
If you're comparing your optional 21" vs the Ti's stock 19' size, I'm not sure how much of a difference that will make, because of the changes in weight you are trying to spin.

I know that the Ti doesn't come with a limited slip rear while the Veloce does, so there are differences there.
Do you have on any of the electronic driving aids, like the lane keep and other stuff from the Active Assist Plus Package, if you have that option?
Try turning them all off, and drive the car again.
Did the Ti have that option package?

I wish there was more you can do about this.
If they get another Veloce in the dealership, with the same wheels yours has, you should definitely take that one for a test drive, too.

Hell, you should do the ultimate test:
Have your wife in one car, you in the other, and line up at a safe section of road somewhere, and give the cars the beans.
That would ultimately prove if there's a difference in performance.
 

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2022 Veloce Ocra GT with Active Assist Plus
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I hear you on the “lazy” transmission. A go pedal and tune later, the car is a blast to drive now.
A Go pedal and tune is also an excellent way to get your warranty restricted by FCA. Save all that fun stuff for when the warranty expires, not in this situation.

I have a '22 Veloce and that bad boy will aggressively bang upshifts in every gear when using the paddles or the manual shifter mode. The OP's should do the same thing in Dynamic setting.

Homestly, not sure if the OP is really able to accurately describe what's going on so it's kinda hard to grasp what he is experiencing vs. his '18. Either a power issue or tranny programming not letting it hit correct gears to be in the peak of the torque curve as designed?
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
@factoryhack, the octane is a good point. I’ve tried 93 but it’s made no difference. Matter of fact, I was putting 93 from the start but after finding the issues I’ve since switched to regular since the car does nothing with it anyway. Ill switch again just to test but after everything I know now doubt any changes. My 2018 did do better with higher octane I noticed. The boost gauge is a great idea! I’ve been thinking of ways of how I can start to quantify and measure the issue and that’s a great start. Next up will controlled acceleration times. The boost gauge in the display is another great idea!

@ALFAOFFROAD, yes I started thinking more turbo than tranny after driving the loaner. The grunt and power the loaner was producing while in gear makes me start to think it wasn’t necessarily the tranny anymore. Car just has low power is what I’m mostly drawing on now. It’s like it’s just simply slower and much less reactive and responsive to the throttle. So, my running theory now is the car isn’t producing the expected power. Your thinking of noticing less of a turbo issue up top makes sense. Although after driving the loaner I’m getting a better feeling now that mine may be even less powerful up higher in the RPMs. However, the jury is still out on that. It’s harder to gauge this but I came away feeling like it was still weaker up top and maybe even WOT. Dealer says they checked the turbo and “it’s working” but of course they aren’t measuring its output.

Another method I’m trying to measure or at least demonstrate the problem is using the paddles. So I put put the car in the highest gear it can go in while driving. Then I push on the gas pedal and although I know the power will be low, I'm gauging how the car response while trying to eliminate the tranny from the equation. In 6th or 7th gear (forgetting how much speed I’m doing but it’s not much), I floor it (before kickdown) and it struggles to do anything. Very little acceleration for a very long time before the car starts to finally build speed. Unfortunately, I didn’t test this with the loaner. The idea popped up in my head late while thinking of ways to try and find a consistent method to go about testing.

More to come with some of those acceleration numbers soon! Keep the feedback coming!
 

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@factoryhack, the octane is a good point. I’ve tried 93 but it’s made no difference. Matter of fact, I was putting 93 from the start but after finding the issues I’ve since switched to regular since the car does nothing with it anyway. Ill switch again just to test but after everything I know now doubt any changes. My 2018 did do better with higher octane I noticed. The boost gauge is a great idea! I’ve been thinking of ways of how I can start to quantify and measure the issue and that’s a great start. Next up will controlled acceleration times. The boost gauge in the display is another great idea!

@ALFAOFFROAD, yes I started thinking more turbo than tranny after driving the loaner. The grunt and power the loaner was producing while in gear makes me start to think it wasn’t necessarily the tranny anymore. Car just has low power is what I’m mostly drawing on now. It’s like it’s just simply slower and much less reactive and responsive to the throttle. So, my running theory now is the car isn’t producing the expected power. Your thinking of noticing less of a turbo issue up top makes sense. Although after driving the loaner I’m getting a better feeling now that mine may be even less powerful up higher in the RPMs. However, the jury is still out on that. It’s harder to gauge this but I came away feeling like it was still weaker up top and maybe even WOT. Dealer says they checked the turbo and “it’s working” but of course they aren’t measuring its output.

Another method I’m trying to measure or at least demonstrate the problem is using the paddles. So I put put the car in the highest gear it can go in while driving. Then I push on the gas pedal and although I know the power will be low, I'm gauging how the car response while trying to eliminate the tranny from the equation. In 6th or 7th gear (forgetting how much speed I’m doing but it’s not much), I floor it (before kickdown) and it struggles to do anything. Very little acceleration for a very long time before the car starts to finally build speed. Unfortunately, I didn’t test this with the loaner. The idea popped up in my head late while thinking of ways to try and find a consistent method to go about testing.

More to come with some of those acceleration numbers soon! Keep the feedback coming!
Definitely go back to 91+ as that is what the ECU is expecting. At lower octane it will retard timing and boost which won’t harm anything but won’t give you an apples to apples comparison with a loaner car (assuming it’s also filled with premium)

I can always get the gauge to show 28 psi of boost on 91 octane on my ‘22 Veloce so unless you have some unusual elevation, ambient temps, or crappy fuel, I would think you’d see the same on your gauge, Let us know.

Also, a big part of acceleration is obviously power applied against gearing so it’s really the combo of the transmission programming the right gear for the situation to keep you in the torque curve. I would think you would be able to tell if your car is not hitting the same gear as the loaner car in the same situations.
Also, keep in mind D mode has a different much more aggressive shift programming algorithm than N mode or A mode.


Good luck.
 

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2022 Stelvio Ti Alfa white with Chocolate interior, premium package.
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Definitely go back to 91+ as that is what the ECU is expecting. At lower octane it will retard timing and boost which won’t harm anything but won’t give you an apples to apples comparison with a loaner car (assuming it’s also filled with premium)

I can always get the gauge to show 28 psi of boost on 91 octane on my ‘22 Veloce so unless you have some unusual elevation, ambient temps, or crappy fuel, I would think you’d see the same on your gauge, Let us know.

Also, a big part of acceleration is obviously power applied against gearing so it’s really the combo of the transmission programming the right gear for the situation to keep you in the torque curve. I would think you would be able to tell if your car is not hitting the same gear as the loaner car in the same situations.
Also, keep in mind D mode has a different much more aggressive shift programming algorithm than N mode or A mode.


Good luck.
I’m no mechanic, but maybe the ECU isn’t getting the signal to the turbo/wastegate… ie even if the turbo is fine per se, maybe the ECU isn’t requesting it?
 

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2022 Veloce Ocra GT with Active Assist Plus
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I’m no mechanic, but maybe the ECU isn’t getting the signal to the turbo/wastegate… ie even if the turbo is fine per se, maybe the ECU isn’t requesting it?
The boost gauge in the performance screen should provide an answer, especially when driven back to back against a loaner car in the same conditions, throttle, MPH, transmission gear, etc.
 

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I would have them checking exhaust for possible back pressure/clogging issues, then the turbo plumbing for leaks. Then it would be restrictions in the system, compression, fuel system pressure, mass airflow and O2 sensor operation.....

Lots of things can cause reduced power, however to me it sounds like the tranny isn't responding like you expect because the engine isn't putting out the torque/power curve you expect.... Drop the tranny go after the power curve.

Considering the number of bad parts I'm seeing installed from the factory in other brands (since 2019 QC procedures have become non-existent due to shortages, unlike before, now factories aren't testing anything they get parts, they put them in and ship the cars out, fix any and all problems after it sells is the attitude.) I would not be surprised if there isn't a defect causing this...probably something so simple and stupid once it's found you'll laugh. The key is finding it.
 

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I would have them checking exhaust for possible back pressure/clogging issues, then the turbo plumbing for leaks. Then it would be restrictions in the system, compression, fuel system pressure, mass airflow and O2 sensor operation.....

Lots of things can cause reduced power, however to me it sounds like the tranny isn't responding like you expect because the engine isn't putting out the torque/power curve you expect.... Drop the tranny go after the power curve.

Considering the number of bad parts I'm seeing installed from the factory in other brands (since 2019 QC procedures have become non-existent due to shortages, unlike before, now factories aren't testing anything they get parts, they put them in and ship the cars out, fix any and all problems after it sells is the attitude.) I would not be surprised if there isn't a defect causing this...probably something so simple and stupid once it's found you'll laugh. The key is finding it.
Earlier the OP said he was using regular unleaded because 93 premium "made no difference". I would at least start with a known tank of 91+ before looking at boost on the performance screen.

It also makes me question if the D in the DNA mode is working. It seems like such an obvious thing as there is a very noticeable difference from D to N mode, even for a driver not familiar with the Stelvio.
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
So I’ve been doing some acceleration tests. It’s not perfect but might give me a good comparison to others. The goal is to try and gather some acceleration numbers by eliminating the transmission from the equation. I did my tests in the highest gear I can possibly go (using paddles) and push the pedal all the way down before the kick down. Not going past the kick down is important, otherwise the car downshift on its own. Now obviously I’m not trying to maximize acceleration here using the highest gear but instead trying to consistently measure times. In my tests a hill or any incline was a big factor so I tried to avoid them and tried to use straight and flat roads. Stop watch method was simply using an iphone and calling out start and stop times to my passenger.

It may be a lot to ask for but I’m hoping others can do the same tests and plug in their numbers.

My car is a 2022 Alfa Stelvio Veloce, 20-inch wheels, transmission was in N mode, engine at operating temp, Temp 85, Humidity 40%, elevation about 200ft, 91+ octane, zero to no incline (important), 1 passenger, ¾ tank of gas, A/C off.

MPHGearTime (sec)
20-304th
5​
25-355th
6​
30-406th
9​
40-507th
10.5​
60-707th
7.5​
70-808th
13​


Please try to fill in whatever times you can or add other I can duplicate as well. Not perfect but maybe something jumps out. To try and identify any possible variations please fill in as much of the info below as possible.

Year/trim/wheel size
Transmission mode (N)
Octane
Outside temperature and humidity
Elevation
Flat surface
Passengers
Amount of fuel in tank

Be safe and thanks to anyone that can post their numbers.
 

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2022 Veloce Ocra GT with Active Assist Plus
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So I’ve been doing some acceleration tests. It’s not perfect but might give me a good comparison to others. The goal is to try and gather some acceleration numbers by eliminating the transmission from the equation. I did my tests in the highest gear I can possibly go (using paddles) and push the pedal all the way down before the kick down. Not going past the kick down is important, otherwise the car downshift on its own. Now obviously I’m not trying to maximize acceleration here using the highest gear but instead trying to consistently measure times. In my tests a hill or any incline was a big factor so I tried to avoid them and tried to use straight and flat roads. Stop watch method was simply using an iphone and calling out start and stop times to my passenger.

It may be a lot to ask for but I’m hoping others can do the same tests and plug in their numbers.

My car is a 2022 Alfa Stelvio Veloce, 20-inch wheels, transmission was in N mode, engine at operating temp, Temp 85, Humidity 40%, elevation about 200ft, 91+ octane, zero to no incline (important), 1 passenger, ¾ tank of gas, A/C off.

MPHGearTime (sec)
20-304th
5​
25-355th
6​
30-406th
9​
40-507th
10.5​
60-707th
7.5​
70-808th
13​


Please try to fill in whatever times you can or add other I can duplicate as well. Not perfect but maybe something jumps out. To try and identify any possible variations please fill in as much of the info below as possible.

Year/trim/wheel size
Transmission mode (N)
Octane
Outside temperature and humidity
Elevation
Flat surface
Passengers
Amount of fuel in tank

Be safe and thanks to anyone that can post their numbers.
Honestly, this seems like some really iffy methodology that's not going to show you anything of value. Accelerating gently enough to not hit the ZF's downshift program in N mode is not going to give you any useful data if you're concerned with measuring engine performance.

Without a potentiometer measuring exact throttle pedal input %, you're just randomly guessing where the downshift algorithm is compared to someone else trying to do the same test who is also randomly guessing.

How about pulling up your performance screen to display the boost gauge and just hammer it in D mode to see what you get for PSI? Let the transmission programming do it's thing and don't over analyze it.

I can regularly get 28 PSI to show on the gauge under load with 91 octane with my '22 Veloce with 21 inch wheels, 800 ft. elevation, moderate ambient temps, etc.

How about you?

Boost will generally tell you if the motor is making power. There is also a horsepower gauge and torque gauge display that would be an excellent thing to look at compared to another Stelvio under the same conditions.

While it's possible you could have an exhaust restriction or some other oddity, my guess would be comparing your max boost, HP, and torque against another Stelvio would give you some clue if you truly have a power issue.
 

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Why not just put your loaner and your car on same dyno, same day? Actually cost effective for dealership as well. Instead of throwing parts and updates at it, see if the numbers support the concern.
 

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Why not just put your loaner and your car on same dyno, same day? Actually cost effective for dealership as well. Instead of throwing parts and updates at it, see if the numbers support the concern.
The dealership wouldn’t pay for something like that although it is plausible the OP could find a dyno shop to schedule a run with the OPs car and a loaner vehicle on their own dime. The OP would need to come up with a story or have a very understanding dealer who would let some random customer strap a loaner Stelvio on a dyno.

The other complication is I’m assuming the OP has an AWD Stelvio and there aren’t many dyno set ups that work with AWD which requires two sets of rollers.

As I mentioned in my earlier comment, the OP should start with by just pulling up the performance screen menu to display the boost/ HP / torque gauges at full throttle vs. a loaner to see what the delta is between the two, if any.

A dealer would be much more likely to allow a brief test drive with a tech to do a back to back comparison and perhaps get an answer with out the hassle, time, and expense of a dyno
 

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Discussion Starter · #57 ·
@factoryhack

I think getting some numbers to compare will help. Again, it’s not perfect but if there is a significant enough difference between mine and others it’ll possible jump out. The key is minimizing variations and keeping consistency across the tests. Also, using something like a Dragy of course would be better.

There is little to no factor in throttle input difference from what I was doing. It’s practically an immediate push of the peddle to before kickdown. I had no problem doing it and never made the mistake of going past kickdown. A couple goes at it and I’m sure others will find it very easy to do.

Bring the car up to desired speed, use paddles to go into the highest possible gear car will allow and very quickly push pedal to before kickdown. Pedal input part was easy and consistent every time and didn't find that to be a problem.

Nonetheless, what I’m looking for here is significant differences. If were talking a sec or two difference compared to mine, that may be inconclusive but if we’re looking at something like a 40-50% difference in times across the board then that’s identifying something.

I still like your suggestion on the boast. Will get behind the wheel this week to do that and post results.
 

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Do standard 0- 60 and 1/4 mile runs - bhvdr has posted tons of data to check of yours is ballpark. Speed in 1/4 gives you a good horsepower test. Subtract some numbers and you can compare 30 to 100 etc which may tell you transmission is shifting properly as well.
Monkeying around with comparing how different people perceive slow isn't going to tell you anything.
 

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There is actually a case.. I think Mazda(?) had a bunch of faulty turbos on one of their models....... Before the recall and announcement there was a huge thread where a few owners were suggesting the car wasn't making enough HP and the turbos weren't working. The majority of the other owners on the forums disagreed.... Thought those people were stupid.

Turned out most of the owners of that car just couldn't tell thier turbo wasn't working.

Seat of the pants isn't reliable.


To this day my Dad swears up and down my Mom's 2001 Audi A6, 4.2 V8 was slower to 60 then his bone stock Miata was back then. Seat of the pants.... His seat is wrong.... Like really, really, wrong.

Otherwise buncha good suggestions here.
 

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@factoryhack

I think getting some numbers to compare will help. Again, it’s not perfect but if there is a significant enough difference between mine and others it’ll possible jump out. The key is minimizing variations and keeping consistency across the tests. Also, using something like a Dragy of course would be better.

There is little to no factor in throttle input difference from what I was doing. It’s practically an immediate push of the peddle to before kickdown. I had no problem doing it and never made the mistake of going past kickdown. A couple goes at it and I’m sure others will find it very easy to do.

Bring the car up to desired speed, use paddles to go into the highest possible gear car will allow and very quickly push pedal to before kickdown. Pedal input part was easy and consistent every time and didn't find that to be a problem.

Nonetheless, what I’m looking for here is significant differences. If were talking a sec or two difference compared to mine, that may be inconclusive but if we’re looking at something like a 40-50% difference in times across the board then that’s identifying something.

I still like your suggestion on the boast. Will get behind the wheel this week to do that and post results.
Unfortunately, you're likely not going to get anyone to take the time to duplicate your acceleration test(s) and even more unlikely they'll be able to exactly duplicate what you're doing.

Again, just pull up the performance screen and see what you're getting for boost readings under full throttle acceleration. Alfa made it pretty easy for us to see if our turbos are working as designed and gave us all the same gauges so we can compare readings.

When I go to wide open throttle in dynamic mode at 50 mph, the ZF downshifts and I consistently see a peak boost reading of 28 psi. In other gears at other speeds its very consistent at 28 psi on 91 octane. I haven't tried it on 93 octane because it's a bit more challenging to find around here other than at Costco.

Please let us know what you're seeing for boost before you spend any more time measuring acceleration times. I suspect it will lead you to some conclusions much quicker than people trying to duplicate your acceleration testing.

Keep in mind the other part of the acceleration equation is engine torque applied against the most advantageous gear for the situation. For example, D mode has a different transmission shift algorithm and throttle algorithm than N mode which is why D mode feels more lively under all driving scenarios. D will be in a lower gear than N under the same conditions and thus provide better full and part throttle acceleration simply because the programming is set to maximize acceleration over MPGs via being in a lower gear that's putting the motor more at peak torque.

I never use N or A mode because they're just a bit frustrating to use relative to the fun of D mode.
 
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