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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
An all time favorite song!!!!!?

I most certainly am not Elivan, few people drive a Miata or other comp car at that level. All I was saying is I'm deep in a Miata stronghold and have a blast in mine from time to time. Mark Gregory rents his Spec Miatas at our events When you come and and get told the howling tires sounded nice...it means you were having fun. Yes dear, I'm treating the car nice....hehe BTW I rarely use the word race because its NOT what I do, by choice.
 

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I get competing against similar vehicles. Just seems boring and limiting.

I enjoy pushing boundaries which only happens when outmatched. Pro driver.."better" car..let see how much I lose by...or dont lose by.

Yup, line changes mid corner are not the goal (although I find no problem doing them, the traction is there...use less steering input, millimeters of movement to the wheel translates to the tires, again don't over steer, steer exactly enough), smooth and precise application of gas and brake -especially brake, and especially when transitioning between the 2 fast. Use slower, smooth input on the final lift/initial press with faster movement in the center. Ramp up and slow down your speed to avoid smashing the pedal when pressing, or "dropping" the pedal when releasing, which does wonders to the weight transfer. Same with steering inputs slow down for the initial turn and release, fastest movement in the center. Always plan your inputs.

Honestly, to me the car is so rewarding of good driving with such usable power for the street I keep going between modding it or just continuing to enjoy as is. No matter what something will always be faster..but almost nothing is more rewarding to the pure pleasure of driving well.

(Plus the tendancy to lean when cornering makes me feel like I'm Elliot Ness chasing down gansters in an old Gangster movie..all I need are agents standing on running boards outside firing tommy guns at the bad guys)

Good comment about the cooler, not sure, see if I cant figure it out and report back.
 

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@lost1750GTV LOL for sure. I am not into bench racing my daily driver. Driving my GTV6s, old school, not gonna blow a driveshaft donut dropping a clutch or ruin a synchro or gear speed shifting. Great cars but managing momentum is important with 180-200hp. I did have a 5.0 s/c XJL with a few tweaks, 510+ hp, 4300 lb freight train for the interstate, effortless underrated car, are brakes though. ZF six speed better than later 8 speeds.
 

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Oops, was gonna say the XJL rats brakes, pads AND rotors.
 

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"driveshaft donut"
replaced my share of those. the base stelvio leaning reminds me of an alfetta - not a bad thing at all, tenacious grip because of the suspension. I very much enjoyed my loaner, plenty quick enough as is but nothing wrong with more of a good thing.

"competing against similar vehicles. Just seems boring and limiting."
I guess it's pretty safe to assume you haven't then.
"I enjoy pushing boundaries which only happens when outmatched. Pro driver.."better" car..let see how much I lose by...or dont lose by."
have you raced, or are you just competing for the bench racing bluster award (smiley thing here)?
 

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Trained at Bob Bondurant, high perf and Grand Prix...a very long time ago.

Competed in many events through my 30's (also a long time ago now). Never made it a career.

Stand by what I've said. More fun to compete head to head when I know I'm outmatched. Competing with in a given class can be fun, competing outside of that is just more fun. Not looking for bragging rights or awards...looking for fun.
 

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Competing on a dry lake bed etc is cool.
Public roads ..... any fool can go faster than me . That's a choice.
There is a reason every racing organization has classes based on roughly equal vehicles.
More equal puts more emphasis on the nut behind the wheel
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 · (Edited)
I agree with the other nut!
I went through my numbers phase with cars. Stupid enough to buy a 99 Cobra over a 99 M3! I know better now, thus reason a 3600 lb vette doesn't mean didly to me. My 3070 lb Evora ia already as heavy as I want to drive.
My HPDE driving enjoys taking a basically street car and pushing it to its limits...oft times in the instructor group its a mix of street v dedicated track cars. 2 totally different animals...many times I am actually pushing harder than they are, or so they tell me watching the car move around. Its all in good fun however and we are all VERY friendly and helpful to one another. such as one of my fellow instructors knowing I was late for a VIR event pulled in front of me at beginning of session and just told me I'll give you 2 laps for the line. Wow, thanks!
Equal cars = intense competition. Many top shelf racers come out of the Spec Miata ranks now.
 

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Think you are misuderstanding me.

I get why there are classes and enjoy the pure competition between drivers...however saying two cars can't compete because they are in different classes is boring and limiting. Yes, they can. Safely and all in good fun. Win or lose, on a track or a twisty road with speed limits set higher than is possible to drive safely through the turns, or on al dry lake bed, or from a stop light on a highway with 75mph speed limits, no cross traffic, no turns, 10 foot wide lanes and visibility for miles....all in fun. Plenty of places where driving can be enjoied safely. (No, I dont continue accelerating after 80, literally take my foot off the gas. Yes, any line through any curve/turn needs be be completely in one lane, no using the shoulder. No drifting across lanes or going into oncomming traffic, and when I see others do any of that...I drop out instantly. Still possible to have fun with driving skill and vehicular capabiliy.)

Doesn't mean I won't do my best to compete against anyone driving against me in an equally matched vehicle on a set track with defined rules. Doesn't mean I don't have immense respect for those who choose to do that as a profession. Just means I enjoy it more myself when my vehicle and/or skill as a driver makes me an underdog, whether on a track or not.
 

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I get why there are classes and enjoy the pure competition between drivers...however saying two cars can't compete because they are in different classes is boring and limiting. Yes, they can.
...
Depends on the track. Miatas are great competing at MSR Cresson, but go to COTA and they get killed on such a big track. Intermediate HPDE at COTA will have GT3 RS, GT3 Cup, McLarens, Vipers, Ferraris and so forth.

Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Int is Int regardless of trqack. An int in a GT3 that's just a wealthy intermediate. He /she may actually learn more in the Miata.
 

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Tranny in the quad vs base is the same other than gear ratios. Because of the ratios there are 2 part numbers, however it is the same intenal build, same transmission.
You sure about that?.......https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_8HP_transmission

Pay close attention to the chart at the bottom where it illustrates that the version (variant designation) of the ZF 8HP tranny for the base Stelvios is not the same and is not rated for same power/torque as the one in the Stelvio Quad......:rolleyes:
 

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Yes.

The difference in power rating has to do with the input/output shaft specified (which does affect long-term wear at high power), not the design or durability of the transmission itself. There are many different options avalible to tailor the tranny, or deliver a different experiance (sports car vs. truck for instance) however the basic components and overall reliability/durability are the same.


Same tranny in all applications, from the Alfa Quad models to the GM Colorado. Same heavy-duty design. This topic has been done to death on the BMW boards, general consensus is regardless of options, the ZF 8 speed, is the ZF 8 speed. When highly tuned and driven hard, some people do report slippage from the tranny... but not all.
 

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only few tips and hit about the tuning mods for q4 2.0 GME engine.
first big problem, the Kat.
if the tuner leave the kat installed the max power reachable will be 320cv with a good mapping.
another problem born with the torque limiters that serve for avoid zf automatic gearbox crash, the max torque limit, 500nm are very close.
another issue, false ignitions and misfires generated by the multiair system.

pay attention for this kind of tuning, the engine is generous but not heroic
 

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The torque limiter problem, @Marzio, that has to do with software, yes?

The software has limits set to avoid possible problems, which can cause weird responses from the tranny and artificially limit torque produced by the engine.

The cat(catalytic converter) issues have to do with it getting too hot.

As for the Multiair...could see that becoming an issue, very complex system reqiuring alot of programming...which always leads to problems when not done well....

None of this mentions the long term effects of extreme tuning in terms of wear and tear, seal failures from increased heat, etc.

The long term reliable way to be ultra-fast is to get a quad.....that the 4 is as tunable as it is, and can approach those levels without major upgrades in hardware or hit in day-to-day reliabilty is pretty cool though.
 

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the problem in italy to bought a quad is the fiscal impact, terrible.

yes, torque limiters, 5 point, is configurable or disabled by software.

all the diagnostic check and points must to be disabled via software mod, like the turbo diag, the overpressure diag, the torque delta diag ecc

the kat, at 320cv, with a dyno run of 5 minutes reach 980 to 1020°C, really to much
 

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Down pipe and cat, intercooler, radiator capacity, tranny cooler. These are some of the limitations that turn a simple exhaust, intake, diverter valve and ECU upgrade into a more complex hardware upgrade. But doing the easy parts yields a lot more power for occasional spirited street driving, very cost effective, plus perhaps a few easy wheel/tire/suspension tweaks. After that, better to get a quad to go to a higher level. Not trying to make a 2.0 into a quad, just trying to make a better 2.0. I’ll be doing that after my GTV6s get over their recent cash demands.?. And the 2.0 is close to being out of warranty, by mid-year.
 

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I did find a 2018 quad, new, trying to see if they will give me a good price on it. Since it will be massively depreciated the moment it goes out the door. CF brakes, seats. We’ll see...
 

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I haven't seen a 1/4 trap speed on a "tuned" 2.0 (giulia or stelvio) which would indicate any great increase over stock horsepower - yet. useability and butt dynos are different, and the various tunes may be highly satisfying from those points of view.
I expect we won't see that (110+ mph trap speeds) until someone changes the turbo itself - or does something electronic which puts this engine into hand grenade mode.
 
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