[ALFAOFFROAD]

Do you use AS/S or turn it off? (AS/S = Auto Start/Stop)

I am wondering if AS/S is part of the problems, specifically using AS/S and older, non-SP certified, oil formulations. SP, is specifically formulated for less sludge due to auto start/stop use.

Random thought just wondering, any replies from people who have had problems are appreciated.


Side note .....since SP certified oil provides better auto start stop lubrication....... Does that mean it could be called AS/S lube now? (please laugh, and let me know your experience it's a real question)

 

[Tom]

My oil pump partially failed and was replaced at 30K to 40K miles. I have the mod that disables auto start/stop on startup. The failure was last summer and oil was always SN+. Don't know if SP was available then.

 

[ALFAOFFROAD]

IF it was from sludge due to AS/S...the mod should have negated any benifit SP has over SN+ in that regard.

So safe to say that wasn't it for you. Doesn't mean it couldn't have been for others, doubt they all fail for the exact same reason.

 

[Tom]

The 3 closest towns that I drive to are 12, 20, 25 miles one way from my home. So pretty much any trip I take will be long enough to reach full operating temperature. Especially with no AS/S.

 

[bhvrdr]

For what it's worth we have not seen any sludging on 2.0 l engines.

These oil pumps have been issues across the Chrysler lineup and on vehicles prior to automatic start stop

 

[ALFAOFFROAD]

Yes, FCA has had problem with cracked housings... Which isn't what happens on these engines.

Also problems with consumption that causes a drop in pressure. Also not a problem here.

Others have had issues with stalling due to oil pump problems.... Again not the issue here.

Here we have had solenoid failures that lead to pump failures, among other failures without drops in pressure or cracked housings.

Not the same.

Might be something, might be nothing, I'm not as smart as people who rule out options before actually knowing anything. Any answers from those who have experienced the issue are appreciated.

No answers, I'll assume it's nothing or people are afraid to tell their experience based on forum knee jerk reactions.

 

[bhvrdr]

Yes, FCA has had problem with cracked housings... Which isn't what happens on these engines.

Also problems with consumption that causes a drop in pressure. Also not a problem here.

Others have had issues with stalling due to oil pump problems.... Again not the issue here.

Here we have had solenoid failures that lead to pump failures, among other failures without drops in pressure or cracked housings.

Not the same.

Might be something, might be nothing, I'm not as smart as people who rule out options before actually knowing anything. Any answers from those who have experienced the issue are appreciated.

No answers, I'll assume it's nothing or people are afraid to tell their experience based on forum knee jerk reactions.

Negative ghost rider. Ask more questions before making assumptions if you're not sure

Solenoids are an issue many platforms

Codes P06DA & P06DE, oil pump control solenoid

I don't know if anyone can help me... Been getting these two codes solid for a few days. I am pretty sure it's the oil control solenoid failed in the oil pump, pump is stuck in high pressure mode. I'm just wondering if anybody has a pin diagram for the PCM, specifically the C2 connector. Before...

www.wranglerforum.com

Anyone replace their 2.0 oil pump?

I had a recent discussion with an Alfa Tech who related, among other things, that they have replaced two, 2.0 oil pumps recently. Apparently there is a solenoid attached to the pump that controls a high / low pressure circuit, that fails. When the solenoid fails, it sets a CEL. The new pump has...

www.giuliaforums.com

The failure mode is the loose front gear bolt btw

 

[ALFAOFFROAD]

Mm.... Yes a 2014 model that had issues after 5 years... still not the same, is common with early 2010 Jeep's though. Interesting tidbit about that, Jeep changed to shorter oil change intervals... And the solenoid problems almost went away. Dirty oil makes things stick.

It is very interesting to me that Jeep's with the 2.0 engine built off the same modular platform don't have the same number of oil issues appearing online, and is why I asked the question. They do exist but, in much fewer numbers despite selling significantly more engines and them seeing more miles. Jeep does have a shorter factory recommended oil change interval, and the forums laugh at anyone who goes over 5k.


That certainly is one failure. The only one? No, we all know that is not the only type of failure.


I don't think the AS/S is a major factor either, regardless asking questions of those with personal experience is how information is discovered.

@Tom


What was the partial failure of the pump? Did you get a specific reason beyond that? In your case it really does seem like a true defect, nothing really stands out other then the 10k intervals and even that, the miles seem low.

Edit: did some research and answered my own question reading old posts except for that.

 

[jvincetti1991]

I received a CEL and took it in to the dealer, not knowing the exact code. The dealer confirmed the code was for low oil pressure but the technician's notes also indicated he could hear a rattle coming from the pump. I assume the rattle means it was the pump itself and not just the solenoid.

 

[bhvrdr]

Apparently the rattle turns out to be loose gear bolt on pump quite often

 

[ALFAOFFROAD]

@jvincetti1991 do you disable auto start/stop often?

 

[Tom]

@ALFAOFFROAD

It was sudden limp mode with P06DD error. I slowly drove it home and it sat for awhile until the dealer had an opening. Slowly because in limp mode that's the only speed available. After the delay for service appointment it went on a flatbed to the dealer and they said it needed a new oil pump, which of course, they didn't have in stock.

The entire episode took about 5 weeks.

 

[jvincetti1991]

Apparently the rattle turns out to be loose gear bolt on pump quite often

Well, hopefully they learned how to properly tighten the bolts on the more recently manufactured pumps 🤷‍♂️

 

[jvincetti1991]

@jvincetti1991 do you disable auto start/stop often?

Yes, although I bought it used with ~29k miles on it so I am not sure what the prior owner's behavior was.

 

[bhvrdr]

Well, hopefully they learned how to properly tighten the bolts on the more recently manufactured pumps 🤷‍♂️

It doesn't appear they've solved the issue although I don't think it's necessarily class action worthy

 

[ALFAOFFROAD]

@Tom that code is the issue Jeep's had which was fixed by a 7500 max oil change interval.. 5k suggested by owners.


@jvincetti1991 far enough!

Interesting thing about bolts loosening .... Scissor gears in the oil pump (really most any application) exist to balance vibrations by connecting two gears in a way that reduces free play. In our oil pump it is connected to the balance shaft. Were
it to get restricted in anyway.... Very possible the result would be things loosening due to the balance shaft not properly functioning. It's a theory.


Truly think the requirements for clean oil in this engine make the 10k service interval borderline irresponsible. TBH, I did 10k for the first 40k or so and it worries me. Trying to reduce risk factors now.


I suspect the improvements to oil thanks to the API SP and ILSAC GF6 certifications will help if the oil is kept clean. Hoping the improvements in low viscosity stability and better lubrication to things like a timing chain also help the oil pump.

Just did a 5k oil change and the oil actually came out slightly burnt carmel colored not just black (last 2 o/c I did a flush just for the oil pan, didn't start the engine. This time I didn't). That made me feel good, probably placebo but I like it knowing the oil came out cleaner then it has previously.

 

[bhvrdr]

@Tom that code is the issue Jeep's had which was fixed by a 7500 max oil change interval.. 5k suggested by owners.

That issue was not fixed on the jeeps


Btw I don't disagree with 5,000 mile oil change intervals for most drivers that are not highway commuters but I also don't see the connection you're making to the oil pump failures.

If it's of interest try creating a thread finding any people who had oil sludging on these engines. It's almost unheard of btw.

 

[ALFAOFFROAD]

Of course it isn't fixed 100%.

Most people just go by when the oil light comes on, which pretty much eventually results in the problem in those models.

Regardless, don't know of any Jeep shop that have problems with the solenoids when people change the oil at 5k religiously. Do know a lot of Jeep shops, off-roaded with several Jeep clubs for a very long time, it's a known fix.


Everyone should change their oil 7500k, maximum. Or be prepared for some type of problem as the car pushes 100k. If you won't keep the car that long.... Do what you want I guess but don't think you aren't setting the next owner up for issues.

 

[bhvrdr]

I think its sound advice to go by the severe duty schedule which is actually 4,000 miles in our service books when doing short trips that don't get oil up to temperature for long enough to burn off water and also stop and go traffic and idling. This is probably 90% of drivers.

 

[SonofaBuick]

Well, hopefully they learned how to properly tighten the bolts on the more recently manufactured pumps 🤷‍♂️

I notice blue loctite on the bolt on the pump photo posted by bhvrdr. Sounds like it's time for some red or green loctite! You can tell that I'm not an engineer but who knows, maybe that's all It would take.

I do wonder if there's something yanking at this gear drive causing it to loosen up. This is why we have those one way clutches on alternators these days?