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Sad News for my 2018 TI Sport

8K views 69 replies 20 participants last post by  smunger4 
It is with great remorse I will be parting with my TI Sport. Absolutely have loved the car, but now the dealer and mechanical issues are overwhelming. Let me explain..

Purchased the Alfa in October 2017 from my dealer in Sacramento, California (closed 1 1/2 years later); nearest dealer 130 miles away (more dealers closing). No local FCA dealer (Dodge/Jeep, Fiat etc) will service the Alfa.

Developed a "combustion chamber" cylinder 4 issue (mis-fire on cylinder, limp mode) they can't figure out and had to consult with "Engineering" (not sure what that means) Two weeks at the Berkeley, Ca dealer...no resolution. Said...Oh it could be a coolant line on the turbo...really? Or they said a "sticking valve".

Bottom line, I bought a 2021 Ford EDGE ST which kicks ass and I have a dealer 5 miles from my house.

I will miss this forum, the Stelvio is a great vehicle.
I looked hard at those. Nice vehicles, enjoy it in good health! How are you liking it so far?
 
I just don't understand why people don't use independent shops. There is no reason to pay a dealership for an oil change.
Why not? Its cheap. My acura rdx? The most expensive to maintain luxury vehicle in its class? I bring them a jug of oil, and they use all the rest, their kit, and rotate the tires and change it and inspect the car for a whopping $42+tax. The dealership knows more about your car than an indy, save for the specialist type shops, which specialize, like maybe HPE lingenfelter or RUF, or something.

The REAL question is why are some brands like MB so keen on ripping people off...

Indy shops are only best for "I have 115k miles and need a new transmission and you can put one in from the u pull it place for $1250 total...." in my experience. They excell at that kind of item. Had an infiniti that pertained to. Dealer wanted to use a new box and charge like 8k total.
 
Why do some brands overcharge for service? Because some consumers thinks it's harder to find a good indpedent place then it is.

I don't know SF real well, but... Let's put it this way. I live near the Joshua Tree National Park. Nearest "city" Twentynine Palms, population 26,147 on a good day. EVERY AUTO SHOP IN TOWN CAN AND WILL WORK ON MY CAR. Not exaggerating, all of them can do it (the Jeep dealer in Yucca Valley won't). I highly doubt the shops in 29Palms - a literal backwater - are more up to date on computer scanning equipment then shops in San Francisco, or pretty much anywhere outside of a third world country.

Nothing about the car is unique including the software, its a standard FCA/Stellantis package...lots of cars use SGWs. MultiECUScan works on more cars then just Alfa's...because the software isn't unique to the brand. I realize the worries..also realize most of those worries exist because of incorrect information. Not trying to be a jerk, trying to clear up a misunderstanding so people don't get manipulated.

The absolute worst thing that could possibly happen by going to an independent shop instead of a dealer for maintenance is the reminder inside the infotainment system won't get reset. Please understand, the only time I ever took my car to the dealer for the oil, THEY DIDN'T RESET THAT REMINDER. so yeah..not a big deal. The maintenance reminder doesn't outweigh a reciept for an oil change, it isn't anything real. As long as you have reciepts your warranty is fine even if every maintence light has been in for 4 years. 99% of independent places have digital storage of reciepts just like the dealer...you don't even have to keep a file. Just call and they will make copies for you.

If calling a few shops is too much work..ok. But...at least acknowledge the option exists. If you would rather drop a few thousand dollars on something you like less then what you had (like the replacment as much or more) more power to you, but if that isn't what a person would rather do, there are options.

As far as the rest....think whatever you want. I'm an independent tech....no certifications. The guys with manufacturer certifications call me for help, I don't call them. That is way more common then you think. Outside of me calling them to get TSB info. They call because they can't diagnose problems without being told what it is by the someone else... Or a piece of paper (TSB). If you think that is the pinnacle of auto repair...I disagree.

Reality is..dealer techs are very often the new guys just out of school, or with a few years under their belt, the independent techs are the guys with decades of experience that got tired of working at dealers. Half the guys out there have held certs in multiple brands not just one.

Generally new techs start at a dealer, work till they get good, then quit to go work independent, have fewer hours, less stress and make double or more in income.

Do whatever you want, just trying to share info.

If you dump your Alfa cause your want another car, more power to you. There are alot of great cars out there.

If you are thinking of dumping your Alfa because of a dealer, and wish you didn't have to, don't want anything else......just offering an alternative option/perspective. Not trying to insult anyone's option just presenting mine along with the reasons why I hold the opinion. If I seem critical or offensive it is not in my heart, not intended, please forgive me.
Maybe that's how it works where you are, but the real talent where I grew up was at a dealer. They use dealer tools and supplies, and often would do side jobs at the dealer on their own time for cash. A friend of mine was ASE master cert tech, and one of the best mechanics Ive ever seen work. Back in 2008ish, he was making 70-80k typically per year, had full benefits from his dealer, etc. and they paid for all of his learning, tools, all of it. It was a sweet gig. The local indy shop talent for thst race club? He took apart this kids MKIV supra and couldn't even figure out how to put it back together. So my experience is inverse to yours...but samples of two. Point being, YMMV bigly! on this topic.

Also, the Edge ST differs from the Alfa enough thst maybe OP prefers it for its differences. I think the RDX is more like the Alfa, by far, imo.
 
Yeah...that is what you think based on one tech? What 4 or five dealers? Ten even? In one area of the country. For sure. I have seen the same thing.

Regardless the overall picture is alot bigger then that. Always exceptions, in a world with billions of people...there are alot of expeceptions. Still exceptions.
Yeah, but with car dealers, its more variable thsn it should be. No other physical product is supported this variably or arbitrarily.

Example: My Mazda and MB dealers local are next door to each other. They sre both owned by the same group. The Mazda dealer is amazing. $20 gets you a full multipoint inspection and oil change, with everything checked and recorded, tire tread, brake lining, everything. If you dont supply the oil its $49. The first time, I thought it was bs. I asked for a tread depth tool and was handed one. Marched out there to prove whether or not they actually measured or just wrote stuff...and my tires matched exactly what was on my tech sheet.

The MB dealer charged my former temp roommate $150 to do a preowned car inspection. Nothing was recorded except check boxes of "green, yellow, red", and they didnt even air up his low tires. He left and still had the low tire light on. Total trash service.
 
Going back to the original post, OP, if you're still reading, how many miles are/were on your Stelvio when it developed the #4 misfire? Sounds like there was not a definitive diagnosis?

AlAlfa, funny you say it reminds you of Saab ownership. I'm a huge Saab fan and have owned three. I think Saab ownership prepared me well for Alfa ownership. ;) Funny enough, the Alfa dealer I go to (Alfa/FIAT/Maserati of Santa Monica) in in the old Saab of Santa Monica location where I used to service my first 9-3 until it was out of warranty. It's a nice bit of nostalgia.
Other stelvios with OPs symptoms needed new engines. Dealers couldnt sort it in those cases either.
 
I like a lot of stuff about the Alfa, but...great engineering? Maybe...but not much actually FROM Alfa.

The zf8 is German.
The multiair 2.0 is, ironically, from Fiat, which as part of the takeover of AR, then AR president, Ettore Massacesi, said AR would never use a Fiat engine, as the engine was a big part of Alfa identity. The engine isnt Alfa. Its pure Fiat design. Now we get to the chassis...the brakes are Brembo, and Continental AG is who designed the brake by wire system. Continental is German, and Brembo was at least an Alfa aupplier3even back in the day. The Q4 awd system is courtesy of Magna Powertrain, an American company who has made systems for pretty much everyone. The only thing in the Stelvio that I actually credit Alfa Romeo for, is the suspension. The rest of the car is a shopoing catalogue from other countries and companies. Even the chassia/atruxture, which was designed at Maserstis facility, by Ferrari engineer Philipe Krief. That's not a bad thing, but it does downplay the whole "AR engineered..." angle, with regard to Stelvio. No they didn't. AlfaLink is about it.

That said, the one thing AR did do, is my favorite part of the vehicle, which is its suspension. I hate how stelvio wallows around. It feels like a miata. But I also recognize that this is not a bad thing, just a preference. Some people like miata. I do not. But noone will rightly argue that miata is a bad suspension. I think it's unique in an SUV, to be sure, and is the reason people think other brands are "oversprung"---they arent---they just prefer miata to corvette suspension dynamics.

In short, Stelvio is a Heinz 57 of a vehicle, and comes from many companies, all stuffed into one. Quirks are going to be a thing, but the suspension and handling characteristics are unique and love/hate, and I think that is what actually sells---or doesn't sell---the car, to people who purchase based on driving it.

Like the miata, there is nothing to "get". You either like it, or do not. Alfa doesn't somehow post the best numbers in their class, either. They just do very well, and appeal to those who enjoy their dynamic, which is any car, really, just options, but Alfa is a unique option to be sure, and I am glad to see niche brands, even if they exist on the dole from parent companies. I was very sad to see SVT dissolved by ford, for example, back when.

But again, Alfa didn't engineer much of anytbing beyond Alfalink. Stellantis bought it for them. Daddy's money is all that saved AR from a downtrending EU economy some years back, so to speak. And like most family members who would be in ruin but for daddy's money, there can be some personality flaws, no matter how otherwose charming. Part of which, OP seems tonhave tired of.

One thing I will say, I like things made from one company. Glock. Benelli. They make good guns. Boring and reliable. Why? They control the whole process. They do not adapt other company's product to their production. They make it. In cars, this is very hard to find, as they all psrtner and share, but I do try.
 
Wow, lot's of replies....

So there is a still an engine misfire issue and they have no idea. Alfa "engineering" said to replace a bad turbo coolant line and see if that works (yeah right). Tech thought is may be a "sticking" valve. 2 1/2 weeks in...no resolution.

FYI 36K mileage.

I have contacted other FCA dealers and independents. Basic service can be done, but no one other than an authorized Alfa dealer will touch any warranty work.

I still own the Stelvio ......maybe I will convince my wife to keep the Edge and the Stelvio :)

For what it is worth, here is my take on the Edge ST:

Heavier for sure (~400 pounds), more torque and HP, but frankly the Alfa feels faster with the 2.0. Pretty amazing. Alfa handles better. Edge is roomier, way better tech, and feels solid.

I feel like I took a step back, but can't handle the dealer issues.
For me, that was what steered me away from the Edge ST. 335hp/380tq and an 8 speed in a 4400# vehicle should be way swifter. I don't know what's up with it.

As to your Stelvio, the last one I heard about like yours had no compression/low compression on 1 or more cylinders. Dealer replaced turbos and everything. Obviously didn't fix it. Im guessing its failure in the byzantine system that is Fiat multiair. Put that as my guess: multi air related failure.

That said, Im super curious how fast an Edge really is, real world, if you have a dragy. I fiund the thread where the Stelvio owner here put his stelvio on the clock without brake torquing it, very enlightening. Drag strip starts just arent my thing. I want to know ahat the car does when you need the beans without planning it out and staging it up, etc.
 
so is the car gone? Or did they do a compression check and think about rnr multi air parts?
+1
Last OP indicated, he still owned the Stelvio and the dealer was looking into what's wrong. I will be amused if the dude without a Stelvio is the one who posted the solution first, lol! That said, I'll be happy for OP that the fix is easy and straight forward and he can be back to enjoying his vehicle.
 
The ST Edge is not the Stelvio as far as general acceleration and cornering, although it corners very nice with the factory Hankooks (which cost more than the Michelin AS pilot Sports on my Stelvio). Hard to tell which vehicle has the better AWD. I have always been an RWD-based guy, so I was really apprehensive with a transverse turbo V6....but it works.

My Wife hated the Stelvio...too aggressive and "twitchy" the Ford is 400 pounds heavier and bigger...it definitely feels more solid/stable.....but I miss the acceleration. You need to really put your foot into the ST to get it moving.

I don't have a GPS 0-60 unit.....but I would say 5.7 or so....
I've seen real world numbers of low 6's all the way to high 6's for t he Edge, which is why I ask. I have found that the magazines are pretty bunk, honestly, for how I drive. I do not brake torque vehicles when I consider their 0-60 because when am I going to do that on the street? It's much like the 5500rpm clutch drop that gets an STI that low 5 second 0-60. Never. I actually pay for the upkeep, lol! magazines don't.

My ex gf had an Edge, but was a 2.3 or 2.0 or something other than the V6. Its AWD was excellent and I liked how it handled, but it definitely felt its heft.

I hope you get your stelvio sorted. I interestingly came from a RWD sports car background, and now drive FWD/AWD SUV's, lol! My CX5 was okay, my RAV4 Prime was abysmal, but my RDX handles pretty RWD because of the overdriven rear and the torque vectoring. I didn't thrash the Stelvio on my test drive, but I didn't note in hard acceleration or cornering that it felt any different from my RDX, likely as I don't take either of them to the point of actually sliding. I am betting if I did, the Stelvio would oversteer and the RDX would understeer, until both of their respective systems reined them in and corrected it. The RDX definitely feels lighter on its feet because of the flatter handling, but the Stelvio's 50/50 weight distribution makes it a total Miata in dynamics, I bet.

I didn't drive an Edge ST because of my ex's Edge. It was not a quality vehicle. By 80K miles it had:

Dead SYNC3
Dead wiper motors
Dead axle

This kindof wiped Ford off the map for me with a "Yup, same old company I worked for in the early 2000's".

That said, the new SYNC is supposed to be more stable, and wiper motors seem odd, so hopefully the new new Ford's are G2G.
 
Sorry, been busy with family....as of today 4/1822 5:33 PST...no word. This morning the Service Manager in Berkeley, CA told me cylinder 4 still showed low compression after replacing a coolant line (which I knew was not the issue), It will be four weeks this Thursday (I AM NOT KIDDING).

So, we shall see.....
Like I opined early in this thread, I am strongly of the opinion the multi-aire has shat the bed in some manner. The only other explanation is physical damage to rings/piston or valves, and I'd think this would be an audible occurrence and also not so "variable". The multi-aire is a very complex way of doing a very simple thing, and it's prone to stuff like this if anything at all goes awry.
 
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