[Scalewoodman]

Part of my job is to work with Weights and Measures-- both at the state level (Pennsylvania) and NIST. In Pennsylvania, as in many other states, Weights and Measures is involved with weight verification and traceability, package checking (from the consumer protection side of things), testing of commercial scales used in retail or sell-by-weight applications (ranging from jewelry, deli meats, airline baggage overweight fees, buy/sell all the way up to railroad track scales), volume verification in dispensing for commercial applications and certification (fuel oil, propane, firewood, gasoline), and also fuel quality/octane ratings.


Just to note: Weights and Measures enforcement programs are notoriously UNDERFUNDED and abandoned by state legislatures-- Maryland is one of the worst examples.


A sealer was on his way to Allentown based on a consumer complaint-- water in fuel-- but also they verify performance of delivery of fuel at the pumps.


So the obvious question is given the LARGE PRICE DISPARITY between the 'standard' 89 octane to 91 octane to the 93 octane we are all using in our Alfas, what assurance is there that when we are paying for 93 octane that we are actually getting what we are buying? It's not chump change here...


-- They test octane ratings during the 'warm' months and overall find very few problems.
-- Most problems are mechanical issues with 'mix' pumps that proportion according to octane (Sunoco)
-- In the 'mix' pump application, the first gallon is usually what was dispensed to the previous customer (no issue with that other than to be aware of it)
-- Straight gas (NO ETHANOL) is not allowed to be dispensed using mix pumps-- must pump through straight from the storage tank. We have a few stations that dispense 'real' non-adultrated with Ethanol gas at a premium price.
-- Gas stations that dispense, say, 89 octane fuel but are charging as 93 octane (fraudulent behavior) will be and are prosecuted, but this is a rare occurance.
-- In New Jersey (not sure any other states) it is illegal to pump your own gas - FYI - but because the payment is processed electronically it would be hard to cheat.


https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=11131 - More information. Hope you find this informative.


Just to editorialize, ETHANOL is the biggest boondoggle regulation ever! Not only did it force up the price for corn products by simple supply-and-demand, it inhibits performance and reduces fuel mileage. Ridiculous and another case of 'goody goody' legislation having unintended consequences. And I am 'pro' agriculture at that.

 

[1265]

our standard for gasoline is 95ron.

but I'm pretty sure that the effective quality is poor

 

[lost1750GTV]

"biggest boondoggle regulation ever"
and everyone knows it, but with primaries held in Iowa, it has become sacred.

the whole concept of using agricultural land to grow fuel instead of food is incomprehensible.
edit - it really bugs me that my prior state, CA, and current MA, don't allow real gas to be sold.
there's some really bad groupthink going on.

 

[1265]

"biggest boondoggle regulation ever"
and everyone knows it, but with primaries held in Iowa, it has become sacred.

the whole concept of using agricultural land to grow fuel instead of food is incomprehensible.

agree 100%

 

[SailDrive]

Yes, Yes, and Yes.

also, I received a notice from a boating advocacy group over the winter that it's been approved that most fuel will switch from E10 to E15 nationally (unless that move was later blocked and I didn't hear, which lots of people were trying to do).

Also illegal to sell pure gasoline here in Connecticut unless you want to go buy it from the local airport and pay Avgas prices...

 

[lost1750GTV]

avgas is a "bad" choice, unless you spend lots of time in high Colorado passes.

 

[idea1947]

Part of my job is to work with Weights and Measures-- both at the state level (Pennsylvania) and NIST. In Pennsylvania, as in many other states, Weights and Measures is involved with weight verification and traceability, package checking (from the consumer protection side of things), testing of commercial scales used in retail or sell-by-weight applications (ranging from jewelry, deli meats, airline baggage overweight fees, buy/sell all the way up to railroad track scales), volume verification in dispensing for commercial applications and certification (fuel oil, propane, firewood, gasoline), and also fuel quality/octane ratings.


Just to note: Weights and Measures enforcement programs are notoriously UNDERFUNDED and abandoned by state legislatures-- Maryland is one of the worst examples.


A sealer was on his way to Allentown based on a consumer complaint-- water in fuel-- but also they verify performance of delivery of fuel at the pumps.


So the obvious question is given the LARGE PRICE DISPARITY between the 'standard' 89 octane to 91 octane to the 93 octane we are all using in our Alfas, what assurance is there that when we are paying for 93 octane that we are actually getting what we are buying? It's not chump change here...


-- They test octane ratings during the 'warm' months and overall find very few problems.
-- Most problems are mechanical issues with 'mix' pumps that proportion according to octane (Sunoco)
-- In the 'mix' pump application, the first gallon is usually what was dispensed to the previous customer (no issue with that other than to be aware of it)
-- Straight gas (NO ETHANOL) is not allowed to be dispensed using mix pumps-- must pump through straight from the storage tank. We have a few stations that dispense 'real' non-adultrated with Ethanol gas at a premium price.
-- Gas stations that dispense, say, 89 octane fuel but are charging as 93 octane (fraudulent behavior) will be and are prosecuted, but this is a rare occurance.
-- In New Jersey (not sure any other states) it is illegal to pump your own gas - FYI - but because the payment is processed electronically it would be hard to cheat.


https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=11131 - More information. Hope you find this informative.


Just to editorialize, ETHANOL is the biggest boondoggle regulation ever! Not only did it force up the price for corn products by simple supply-and-demand, it inhibits performance and reduces fuel mileage. Ridiculous and another case of 'goody goody' legislation having unintended consequences. And I am 'pro' agriculture at that.

It seems there are more than a few posters on this forum who choose to bash ethanol. Interestingly, Indy racing cars have been using 98% pure ethanol plus 2% denaturant (gasoline) since the 2007 season. The fuel has an octane rating of 113. The methanol fuel that it replaced was 107 octane, and the better fuel mileage associated with the new fuel allowed the teams to reduce tank size to 22 gal from 30 gal while simultaneously reducing pit stops to take on more fuel.The trick to increasing efficiency with ethanol fuel is to increase engine compression ratios, something the US government knew during WWII when they used the fuel in their high performance fighter aircraft.

 

[OhioF1]

This is a good question. I thought about that the other day at a gas station when pushing the 91 octane button. How do I know this is not 89 ? Back in the late '80s I had a VW Scirocco 16V that required "premium" gas. In that car, putting in anything less was very noticeable and you could hear the knock under load. So back then I knew. Modern electronics mask this now. With my previous 2013 MB C300 (3.5V6), putting in 89 octane did not cause a knock but you could tell under hard acceleration as you just didn't have full power. I haven't played around with lower octane in the Stelvio. Since its a boosted turbo, I understand, and respect the Octane requirements.