[Giovanni Photo]

Thanks bhvrdr, Walmart is easy. Why is the MS 13340 rating always omitted in all the online postings? Does the Mobil 1 SN plus have that rating?

 

[bhvrdr]

Because the 13340 rating is a completely voluntary rating that fca / stellantis have never even tested for or certified for unlike real certifications like audi vw508, 504, Porsche c30 etc that are actually certified against.

So consequently it becomes a rather meaningless "certification" that no one bothers to even list and its way under what sn plus requires anyways.

Thats why 5he manual says nothing about not meeting ms13340 but says not meeting sn plus may result in engine damage and warranty denial. Can't get more clear than that 😉

 

[Jwg223]

Id just use the oem oil. It has an antifoaming spec, and noone else publishes this exact spec, arbitrary or not. The MA system relies on oil properties so specific that it should technically be reset after oil changes, even.

 

[ViscontiVerde 164L*]

I solved my oil problem.
Easy enough to get SN 5w-40
MS12991
At the same time, I also solved my overrated 390/443 issue.

 

[psujwj]

M1 0w30 afe is sn plus/sp and very easy to get...

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mobil-1-Advanced-Fuel-Economy-Full-Synthetic-Motor-Oil-0W-30-5-Quart/17034369

Mopar 0w30 is also available at all dodge, Chrysler, alfa dealerships and can be shipped

In theory. I called the local JCD dealer here and they said they had it. Went to pick it up same day and they said it was gone. Didn't offer to order for me and told me they had no idea when it would be back in stock, just keep checking back. So I ordered online. Not sure if that's normal or if this dealer is just not very good at what they do (it's a pretty new dealership).

 

[Jwg223]

In theory. I called the local JCD dealer here and they said they had it. Went to pick it up same day and they said it was gone. Didn't offer to order for me and told me they had no idea when it would be back in stock, just keep checking back. So I ordered online. Not sure if that's normal or if this dealer is just not very good at what they do (it's a pretty new dealership).

Two Toyota dealers in my area were out of oil for my vehicle. I had to buy online, too. The world is on fire, as they say. (Why I can buy it on Amazon and the dealers are out...befuddles me though).

 

[Tom]

Why I can buy it on Amazon and the dealers are out...befuddles me though

That isn't all that uncommon. I've found that a number of non-auto related items that have disappeared from local store shelves are available in abundance on Amazon.

The exception is the Mopar 0W30 SN Plus oil which can't be found on Amazon.

 

[bhvrdr]

UPDATE:

Earlier in this thread I summarized that API SN Plus certified oils were a a stopgap measure to require oils to immediately address low speed pre-ignition by reducing calcium in oils. LSPI is the number one killer of small displacement turbocharged GDI engines.

API SP certification then came along to cement this LSPI fighting requirement and is complimented by ilsac gf6 testing requirements as well.

Now we can likely look forward to a supplement to API SP in order to address an immediate concern that many API SN Plus and API SP oils are not protecting against LSPI for the duration of a drain interval.

An article from lubrizol may just have sparked an entirely new API SP Plus certification. See it here...

Low Speed Pre-Ignition (LSPI) Durability – A Study of LSPI in Fresh and Aged Engine Oils

Downsized gasoline engines, coupled with gasoline direct injection (GDI) and turbocharging, have provided an effective means to meet both emissions standards and customers’ drivability expectations. As a result, these engines have become more and more common in the passenger vehicle marketplace ov

www.sae.org

What we are likely to see now is oil formulations with very low calcium, moderate magnesium and very low to no moly or titanium if we want to see long term lspi protection.

In essence, the testing showed oils with low calcium BUT that also contained either moly or titanium protected against lspi when new but as the engine ages they no longer protect against lspi.


Mike

 

[ViscontiVerde 164L*]

In other words , the auto industry fd up big time and it now falls on the oil industry to attempt to rectify the issues..............across the board.

 

[bhvrdr]

I don't think automotive manufacturers messed up imo. Without pushing new boundaries the ICE never progresses.

Automotive oil companies jobs are to help automotive manufacturers solve issues.

There's some really neat challenges they face right now.

One is to help oems meet fuel economy standards producing the absolute lowest drag oil while also producing an oil that can withstand oxidation for 18k plus miles while also producing a 0w16 weight oil (as an example) that can resist shearing in everything from nevada track type conditions to being stuck in LA traffic all of its life...all in cars that are more and more likely to create fuel dilution, produce higher and higher cylinder pressures, and use more and more complex timing strategies and exhaust gas recirculation strategies.

 

[Bladecutter]

Now we can likely look forward to a supplement to API SP in order to address an immediate concern that many API SN Plus and API SP oils are not protecting against LSPI for the duration of a drain interval.

So, I wonder what the time/mileage period is that the testing determined that current formulations of oil was able to protect up until, and how much further that one formulation that did provide further protection was able to get to, and what company made that formula?

 

[bhvrdr]

So, I wonder what the time/mileage period is that the testing determined that current formulations of oil was able to protect up until, and how much further that one formulation that did provide further protection was able to get to, and what company made that formula?

I don't recall off hand what the 100 hr dyno test simulates for miles.

FWIW our m1 afe has extremely little moly and our mopar max pro has a relatively low amount. I don't believe either use "liquid titanium". Castrol does in some currently i believe. I can have the lab add titanium.

 

[ALFAOFFROAD]

The oil was aged 100 hours on a dyno cycle. At least in the lubrizol study, published a year ago. There were also multiple formulas tested... The results were consistent.

So essentially a little over 4 full days of use is enough to cause enough wear to make the oil not function properly.....

.....new certifications aren't going to fix this. (Not in the least because setting them is as political as it is scientific. Note that the API certifications are always written to be backwards compatible...that means oil doesn't nessessarily have to be reformulated to meet the new standards. Unsurprisingly...that means they are pretty much always worthless.)

Changing the oil more is the solution here.

Not saying to ignore the certifications... Get oil that meets or exceeds the required certs... Just don't think that guarentees anything besides less hassle under warrenty if you need a repair.

 

[bhvrdr]

The oil was aged 100 hours.

Which would be a little over 4 full days of use.

.....new certifications aren't going to fix this.

Changing the oil more will.

As you said the study looks at oil after 100 hours or whatever the WLTC drive cycle simulates. So unless we change our oil ever 20 hours or even 100 miles i don't think changing the oil alone is going to help

Preventing lspi is about getting the formulation right...for the long haul of 3k miles to 18k miles. Not easy im sure


Calcium reduction basically zerod out incidents of lspi on new oil.

Now they found how to reduce it on aged oil by making sure moly and titanium are reduced.

I haven't looked at more recent studies on even longer aged oils but you can bet that will be studied and tested for in SP Plus as we know oems are going as long as 18k miles plus on changes.

But even if enthusiasts only go 4k miles on a change we'll still want to choose an oil that can prevent lspi for that duration

 

[ALFAOFFROAD]

All these solutions for LSPI are making carbon deposits worse... Everything that is causing LSPI problems.. also functions to clean out carbon. Removing it is simply trading one problem for another.

Considering I see carbon problems almost daily and LSPI problems....not once in the last 5 years......

well.... Yeah, use the proper certifications..... Then change the oil every 5k.

Longer intervals are idiotic. Straight up idiotic, I haven't always though so..however, I was thinking like an idiot.

The certification doesn't matter in terms of oil change interval. It is not smart to leave the same oil in the car for 10k.

BTW... The wear at 100 hours of use.. it doesn't stop wearing after that 100 hours. So yeah.. doesn't matter how you want to interpret results, leaving the oil in for 10k miles...and/or a full year..... Is too long.


If I tracked my car I'de be changing oil after each tracking. As-is... 5k miles is probably fine.