Alfa Romeo Stelvio Forum banner

1 - 20 of 39 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
My wife and I are considering replacing her ancient Saabaru with a new Stelvio base model. Given that the ability to go uphill (STEEPLY UPHILL) in snow is the primary reason for getting an AWD vehicle, the hints about some sort of optional LSD are very interesting. However, I can't find anything about said LSD on Alfa's site (which is frankly unhelpful) or any other promotional materials.



1) Is there actually a LSD that can be optioned onto the base model Stelvio?
2) What option pack is it part of or otherwise how would a dealer refer to it?
3) What are the technical details of the LSD?


Thanks guys.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Find it under the "TI Sport Performance Package". This package includes the LSD and active suspension. As for the LSD there may be others that can comment on its ability to climb steep hills in snow. My 2017 Giulia Sport Q4 with AWD does not have the LSD. I can easily drive up steep hills in snow.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
OK, with that help, I managed to find it in the brochure. Bad news is that the Base can't get the Performance Pack. We hadn't planned on stepping up to a Ti due to the fact that there's nothing we want from it other than the heated stuff and ordering the Winter Package on the base is $1200 cheaper.



Is there a good reference anywhere for what the adaptive suspension in the Performance Pack actually does?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Notice you are in Ohio. Steep hills I am referring to that my Giulia easily handles are in the West Virginia panhandle, so pretty challenging.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Notice you are in Ohio. Steep hills I am referring to that my Giulia easily handles are in the West Virginia panhandle, so pretty challenging.
Yeah the "steep hill" is actually our driveway. This place was built before any sort of code or zoning enforcement in the area. Now, a builder wouldn't be allowed to build on this lot due to the steep hill against the road. Our driveway starts flat near the house but gets drastically steeper as it gets to the road. The last car-length of our driveway where it joins the road is a touch over 30 degrees (yes, degrees, not percent). Unfortunately, due to the shape of the land and the trees just off the side of our lot, you must stop right at the top of the driveway in order to see if there's cross traffic from the left. Effectively, every day we have to do a standing start out into 50mph traffic off of a 30 degree incline. In the winter, my wife's Saabaru will do it even if there's snow and slush on the driveway but my Connect (FWD only, sadly) actually won't pull itself to the top of the driveway, let alone get onto the road from a standing start, even on snow tires if there's anything but bare pavement. I have to go take the tractor out to plow the blacktop and then give the sun time to melt what's left before I can get my Connect out of the driveway. Once I'm on the road, yeah it's pretty damned flat around here so there's rarely a problem.


The entire point of keeping her in an AWD car is so that she can get out of our driveway reliably to go to work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
That is a whole different kind of steep. I can better appreciate your situation. There are a few videos on YouTube that go into more detail about the AWD capability.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,403 Posts
with the AWD, having the limited slip is less of a "need" than if you were looking at a RWD model.
I don't have a base model, but they put power where there is traction, which is what you want.
the limited slip is appreciated by those cornering harder/faster.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
with the AWD, having the limited slip is less of a "need" than if you were looking at a RWD model.
I don't have a base model, but they put power where there is traction, which is what you want.
the limited slip is appreciated by those cornering harder/faster.
Well, we built race cars for a decade, so corners .... :grin
More than that, with the Q4 system being default RWD with the center diff only locking up to 40%, I'd rather have 2 rear wheels pushing than just 1.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
OK, now hang on a second.


There's a Ti Performance Package for the Ti (obviously) and a different listing for a Ti Sport Performance Package (for the Ti Sport, obviously). In one PDF I'm reading, it sounds like they both are supposed to have the LSD and the Active Damping. However, in the Alfa Romeo Brand Book PDF, the chart for features and options lists the LSD only under the Ti Sport Performance Package. Is that a copy/paste oversight or do you really have to start from the Ti Sport, not merely the Ti, in order to get the LSD?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
191 Posts
OK, now hang on a second.


There's a Ti Performance Package for the Ti (obviously) and a different listing for a Ti Sport Performance Package (for the Ti Sport, obviously). In one PDF I'm reading, it sounds like they both are supposed to have the LSD and the Active Damping. However, in the Alfa Romeo Brand Book PDF, the chart for features and options lists the LSD only under the Ti Sport Performance Package. Is that a copy/paste oversight or do you really have to start from the Ti Sport, not merely the Ti, in order to get the LSD?
Not at all trying to discourage you from asking questions here, but I also recommend going to a dealer and seeing if you can talk to a tech about it. There are some pretty major raging threads on this forum on how bad Alfa's documentation is versus what is reality with the builds.

Also, calling @ALFATECH who may be able to help you out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,403 Posts

different wheels on rollers test.

Ok, this is a quad with torque vectoring - but I'm of the opinion that the mode selected for slippery makes more of a difference than lsd or torque vectoring, as the nannies step in, and the performance stuff primarily delays that. so in your situation, you would likely be selecting A mode, early intervention .... they don't say which mode they were using for this.

I will say that on freezing/frozen rain ice, mild uphill, the difference in modes/tire spin/rear friskiness (nanny intervention) is very apparent, but it goes in all of them. my wife used A for the large skating rink at her office and was very pleased, and I ..... really like this car, fun when maybe you shouldn't be looking for it

there are other vids by these people with different vehicles for comparison.
hope this, and Allroads off road and Marzio's snow vids help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
WOw Cool Vid!

After watching this one You Tube pushed me similar vidoes on Lexus and Mercedes 4X4's.

Cool to see them fail where the Stevlio passed.

After "mudding" in my sports TI - I can honestly say it was the steadiest I have ever driven in the mud.

We have had 2 weeks with big 8 inch plus snows this month - The stelvio has gone through it like a champ.

This video helps me understand why. Great find.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,541 Posts
The Q2 LSD is a torsen-type limited slip, it is not the torque vectoring unit on the Quad I am almost positive. Could be wrong though.

Lost is right though, in your situation the LSD is unnecessary.

The Q4 AWD uses the brakes to move power side-to-side so you won't get stuck when one or more wheel loses traction and the center differential is a hybrid limited slip/torque vectoring unit that will actively send power to the axle with traction while allowing up to 2.5% slippage between axles. Combined with "A" mode which limits slip enough to allow the vehicle to "walk" on top the snow instead of digging into it, you will most likely be surprised at how well the vehicle handles bad weather and traction. Might still want winter tires as once all the tires lose traction there is nothing any AWD system can do, but if there is any traction to be had the Stelvio tends to find it and keep going even without limited slip differentials.

Having the LSD will help handling as it responds faster than the electronic system, and it relieve work on the brakes so it will help them last longer too. Definitely benefits to having it, same thing with the active suspension. Still nice to know that you don't have to pile on options to get a functional AWD system, that is standard (on AWD models).

Here is the video I did that goes more in depth as to how the brakes work with the AWD and how the front axle uses a trick lower ratio to make the system more capable than people think....




On a side note, anyone knows where I can get some roller like that let me know....I cannot find them anywhere. Truth is it is not a real world test...in most situations with bad traction ALL the wheels will be slipping to some degree not just one or two, or even three, and getting out of the situation has more to do with the system's ability to put enough power to the wheels to get them turning and the car moving, without putting so much power down that wheels start slipping which stops movement. That is what low range excels at in a traditional 4x4 and why that is the "get unstuck" mode off road, the Q4 system uses electronics, sensors, and multiple systems to do, effectively, the same thing. Which the roller tests do not demonstrate at all, but they look super cool and I have an idea I need them for....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,541 Posts
Here is my first video on the Stelvio, at 17:30 I go up a loose hill, you'll notice at the bottom I go into a dip the lifts the front passenger side wheel, when this happen the car basically stops....this was not me, I was giving it gas. This was the predictive AWD system not knowing what to predict, so it stopped and took a millisecond to figure it out. Once it did, it felt like the car locked itself into a 4x4 mode and it just powered up that hill like it was going for a nice jog. Don't underestimate this system.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1052&v=LG9mbec93iE
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,403 Posts
Allroad, you are correct on the lsd on 4's vs tv on 6cyl, thought I was clear that they were different but ...

"hope this, and Allroads off road and Marzio's snow vids help." - you are making it too easy, but yours is the first that comes up on my general link.

hope all is well with you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,541 Posts
Hm, that article quotes the chief engineer as saying there is a slightly lower axle ratio at the rear,

...however the article Lost posted in another thread quoted an engineer as saying the front wheels rotated slower than the rear, which would put the lower ratio at the front...(lower ratio rotates slower than higher, 5th gear is faster than 1st, but 1st delivers more torque that's why it is better for accelerating from a standstill).

The other article also said the power split was 50/50, Alfa US officially says 60/40 (the 60 is the front split), now this Autocar writer quotes an engineer as saying more goes to the rear....which works accept if the lower ratio is at the rear, that would create understeer when power goes to the front..which is not what happens.

At least the information is consistently inconsistent.

Would like to point out there is alot of incomplete information in that article though..

The only part of the Q4 that involved Magna International is the center diff, which is an off-the-shelf unit used in BMW X-Drive, modified by Alfa to be lighter, faster and stronger. Also to allow overslip. The Magna unit has no mechanical slippage function, all this is why (per Alfa) the center diff in the Q4 is an Alfa patented unit and unique to Afa and probably Maserati..can't confirm that.

The chassis domain control is the brain of the system and that is Magneti Marelli (stamped on the cover).

I think alot of people would disagree with the brake pedal being firm and consistent too. I love the brakes but let's be honest firm the pedal is not. Consistent feeling is also arguable.

Then there is the line about the differential sending up to 885lb/ft of torque to the front axle. That would be almost 200% of the Quad's torque peak, so the split would be 200/0 front/rear? How does that mean more power goes to the rear? Is there some crazy torque multiplier going on?

Or maybe there were translation issues happening...

Really wish Alfa had thier Media/PR information as refined as the driving experiance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
404 Posts
Hm, that article quotes the chief engineer as saying there is a slightly lower axle ratio at the rear,

...however the article Lost posted in another thread quoted an engineer as saying the front wheels rotated slower than the rear, which would put the lower ratio at the front...(lower ratio rotates slower than higher, 5th gear is faster than 1st, but 1st delivers more torque that's why it is better for accelerating from a standstill).

The other article also said the power split was 50/50, Alfa US officially says 60/40 (the 60 is the front split), now this Autocar writer quotes an engineer as saying more goes to the rear....which works accept if the lower ratio is at the rear, that would create understeer when power goes to the front..which is not what happens.

At least the information is consistently inconsistent.

.......
apparently there is a difference between the giulia and the stelvio though, giulia is 60/40, stelvio 50/50
 
1 - 20 of 39 Posts
Top