I've been really skittish about chipping my Stelvio in part because of my concern about reliability, and in part because I don't know the real benefit. I've read about the Euro and Madness systems, which are HIGHLY advocated by members of those organizations througout these message boards, but I wonder, after all this time... what actual owners think as they reflect back, about the actual difference it makes to their driving experience, because regardless of whether you get 20, 30, or 60 HP (claims are all over the place) my gut tells me a 2.0 with near 300 HP is pretty maxed out already, so I wonder what actual owners that have chipped their car have to say.
Lkng-4-Stlvio-Frm-Pvt-Pty
After all the engine upgrades (Stage 2, 3, whatever) what's the REAL performance gains ?
Max gains on stock turbo 2.0l is around 320hp and can be achieved by either a simple tune or piggyback.
Nobody has seen more than 3mph in increased trap speeds over the stock car which is much more conclusive data than dynos that are collected on different sessions (never compare dynos from different sessions).
Here are the results of mods...
www.giuliaforums.com
Ve very leary of tuners claims of 390hp. This is flat out false and proven false by that same tuners acceleration times they published. Theyve actually yet to run faster than a stock stelvio.
Nobody has seen more than 3mph in increased trap speeds over the stock car which is much more conclusive data than dynos that are collected on different sessions (never compare dynos from different sessions).
Here are the results of mods...
Official 1/8 mile, 1/4 mile, 40-100mph, 0-130mph...
I saw the great thread on 0-60 times and in other forums we had cool drag time databases so I thought I'd make one thread where we can see acceleration data. Here is a link to the database...
www.giuliaforums.com
Ve very leary of tuners claims of 390hp. This is flat out false and proven false by that same tuners acceleration times they published. Theyve actually yet to run faster than a stock stelvio.
This is very telling, particularly since all the draggy slips I saw were for Giulias not Stelvios which I suspect would be worse. I did end up putting one of those accelerator pedals on my Stelvio, with unimpressive results (at least I wasn't that impressed). If anything the initial acceleration (0-20) is harder to control which makes sense. Anyways, my conclusion based on your feedback is to stay away from tune or piggyback.
Heres a eurocompulsion tuned stelvio that trapped 99mph with a quarter tank of fuel in it...
Their tuned 40-100mph time was 11.43 seconds
Heres a bone stock stelvio trapping over 100mph with 3/4 tank of fuel on board...
The stock 40-100mph time was 11.11 seconds
This is nothing against eurocompulsion either. Just gives an example from their own results but they're still a great company with great customer service. There's only so much you can do with stock turbo
Their tuned 40-100mph time was 11.43 seconds
Heres a bone stock stelvio trapping over 100mph with 3/4 tank of fuel on board...
The stock 40-100mph time was 11.11 seconds
This is nothing against eurocompulsion either. Just gives an example from their own results but they're still a great company with great customer service. There's only so much you can do with stock turbo
Heres the stelvio database. Nobody has run in good air yet tuned. I expect 102mph trap speeds could be seen. Same delta as with the Giulia. No surprises
www.stelvioforum.com
Official 1/8 mile, 1/4 mile, 40-100mph, 0-130mph...
On the giuliaforums we have a cool drag time databases so I thought I'd make one thread where we can see acceleration data here too. Here is a link to the database...
www.stelvioforum.com
The gains of 30hp are still significant its just not going to change wide open throttle runs dramatically.
I agree with alfatrooper about the feel though. Thats very significant because we have such a small turbo our gains are all seen down low.
You can gain probably 50 + torques with these piggybacks or tunes which you can really feel day to day driving at part throttle. Of course torque doesn't do much for wot runs but its fantastic for around town.
You can see the low end here...
![22955]( "22955")
I agree with alfatrooper about the feel though. Thats very significant because we have such a small turbo our gains are all seen down low.
You can gain probably 50 + torques with these piggybacks or tunes which you can really feel day to day driving at part throttle. Of course torque doesn't do much for wot runs but its fantastic for around town.
You can see the low end here...
Ahh you now have me back on the other side of the fence considering this ... what piggy back did you use ?
I use the jb4.
It produced the highest trap speeds of any 2.0l stock turbo giulia or stelvio and fastest 40-100 and 60-130.
Unlike flash tunes you can remove it without a trace to avoid warranty flags.
it comes with high speed real time gauges and high speed datalogging capability with automatic logging at wot and auto graphing of results.
it fixes the oem stumbling at idle on cold starts.
you can do on the fly map switching from stock, to high torque file, to low torque file, to a valet type mide if you wanted, etc.
when you're done with it you can sell it making it cost about $150 over the life of ownership.
It produced the highest trap speeds of any 2.0l stock turbo giulia or stelvio and fastest 40-100 and 60-130.
Unlike flash tunes you can remove it without a trace to avoid warranty flags.
it comes with high speed real time gauges and high speed datalogging capability with automatic logging at wot and auto graphing of results.
it fixes the oem stumbling at idle on cold starts.
you can do on the fly map switching from stock, to high torque file, to low torque file, to a valet type mide if you wanted, etc.
when you're done with it you can sell it making it cost about $150 over the life of ownership.
Others reported also, 320hp is the max. , without hardware upgrade.The gearbox max torque limit is 500Nm. I am not going to mess up with car for 10% gain. BTW, does anybody knows, what exactly is the turbo in our cars ???
Just looked it up...500 nm is about 368 lb/ft .. stock its 306 ... i doubt 20% more which is about the amount of hp and i will assume, also the torque increase which puts it at 367 would hurt as its within spec.... although extending your warantee if you can is probably a good idea.
I still find it hard to believe you are going to go from 5.4 sec 0-60 down to 4.8 sec 0-60 with only a 40HP gain. To me, that does not add up either. Nuff said.
Also high probability best times would be on a stock vehicle with the lightest setup ie 18's as the AWD will provide more than enough grip. Haven't seen that one.
There is a huge difference in performance at 20-30 degrees v 80-90 degrees. CAI needs actual cold air to help. THis is a very important detail. Summertime lag is far greater. Also skill of owner to be at 2500rpms before launch. I've gone from stock to EC2 enough times to know there is more than 40 hp change. 75++% of my Stelvio driving is in the winter and I will tell you that it is no where near as much fun in the summer so lets see someone draggy a few true flat runs in 20 degree air on a nice dry day. You may be surprised. Not that I give ash!! about draggy numbers.
Even in an Evora, 40 hp is NOT that significant except for peak power. Also, few folks have idealized the setups for optimal airflow as I have witnessed. I am happy to keep it as tuned till the Lotus SUV comes along and makes the Stelvio obsolete.
They have a huge success on their hands with the Emira. Production runs are ssold out. Adding more lines. aside....
Also high probability best times would be on a stock vehicle with the lightest setup ie 18's as the AWD will provide more than enough grip. Haven't seen that one.
There is a huge difference in performance at 20-30 degrees v 80-90 degrees. CAI needs actual cold air to help. THis is a very important detail. Summertime lag is far greater. Also skill of owner to be at 2500rpms before launch. I've gone from stock to EC2 enough times to know there is more than 40 hp change. 75++% of my Stelvio driving is in the winter and I will tell you that it is no where near as much fun in the summer so lets see someone draggy a few true flat runs in 20 degree air on a nice dry day. You may be surprised. Not that I give ash!! about draggy numbers.
Even in an Evora, 40 hp is NOT that significant except for peak power. Also, few folks have idealized the setups for optimal airflow as I have witnessed. I am happy to keep it as tuned till the Lotus SUV comes along and makes the Stelvio obsolete.
They have a huge success on their hands with the Emira. Production runs are ssold out. Adding more lines. aside....
The slope going from 12% (slightly uphill) to -.64% (pretty much flat with a slight downhill) probably had as much to do with the speed increase as the tune.
Only way those numbers work to compare is if everything is the same but the tune. Same car, same run, same weather, run once, each direction (2 times total) for both, then compare numbers. Anything else is fun and gives a good idea but is far from definitive.
Draggy omits results sometimes because it's a consumer product not an actual testing device whose numbers are reliable. It does give a good idea of things though..not saying it's bad, it super sweet for sure..but it doesn't substitute for actual testing and isn't infallible.
Not trying to dog on your numbers, sure there is a legit improvement, definitely looks like it. Just..important to make sure the slope is the same when comparing runs.
Only way those numbers work to compare is if everything is the same but the tune. Same car, same run, same weather, run once, each direction (2 times total) for both, then compare numbers. Anything else is fun and gives a good idea but is far from definitive.
Draggy omits results sometimes because it's a consumer product not an actual testing device whose numbers are reliable. It does give a good idea of things though..not saying it's bad, it super sweet for sure..but it doesn't substitute for actual testing and isn't infallible.
Not trying to dog on your numbers, sure there is a legit improvement, definitely looks like it. Just..important to make sure the slope is the same when comparing runs.
There are so many people that have tested dragy against timing lights its almost hard to have overlook it. I always take it to the track with me and on hundreds of passes its always been within .05 and .5mph.
Dragy has been tested against vbox by many people including myself and its shown to be as or more accurate. Vbox is used in professional timing.
![23009]( "23009")
![23010]( "23010")
![23015]( "23015")
Dragy has been tested against vbox by many people including myself and its shown to be as or more accurate. Vbox is used in professional timing.
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Nice results. I agree with alfaoffroad that its important to control results.
That said i think yours are pretty in line with what people see. 0-60 is just so hard to compare though as it depends at least half on your launch technique which yiuve shown you are pretty darn consistent with. Nice work. I assume awd as its much easier to get consistent 30mph or 60 foots with awd.
When i do comparison testing i do it same day with weather data to include windspeed.
There are some tuners that post their results from before and after their tuning but from different days of testing. When you do this you're letting in many more confounding variables from air pressure 8n tires that impacts acceleration friction and rolling resistance to time on oil that can impact viscosity to any number of weather variables.
Additionally i have the car running telemetry when i do comparison runs.
This is extremely important and why you can see one tuner show an 80whp difference with their tune and every other tuner show a 30whp difference. Telemetry will show you WHATS impacting your power output. If you start with an intake temp just one single degree on the wrong side of an intake temp protection map you can easily see a 30whp difference with making no modification at all to the car. For this reason i coast the car at 60mph before all comparison runs to get starting intake temps even for all runs. Very important.
On the stelvio im seeing the same as the giulia for acceleration gains. 2.5mph increase in trap speed.
That said i think yours are pretty in line with what people see. 0-60 is just so hard to compare though as it depends at least half on your launch technique which yiuve shown you are pretty darn consistent with. Nice work. I assume awd as its much easier to get consistent 30mph or 60 foots with awd.
When i do comparison testing i do it same day with weather data to include windspeed.
There are some tuners that post their results from before and after their tuning but from different days of testing. When you do this you're letting in many more confounding variables from air pressure 8n tires that impacts acceleration friction and rolling resistance to time on oil that can impact viscosity to any number of weather variables.
Additionally i have the car running telemetry when i do comparison runs.
This is extremely important and why you can see one tuner show an 80whp difference with their tune and every other tuner show a 30whp difference. Telemetry will show you WHATS impacting your power output. If you start with an intake temp just one single degree on the wrong side of an intake temp protection map you can easily see a 30whp difference with making no modification at all to the car. For this reason i coast the car at 60mph before all comparison runs to get starting intake temps even for all runs. Very important.
On the stelvio im seeing the same as the giulia for acceleration gains. 2.5mph increase in trap speed.
Wouldn't be surprised if a large part of the improvement is less HP/torque increases, and more faster lockup of the tranny from a standing stop and holding 1st longer. Always felt to me like first gear is under-utilized/doesn't lock up fast enough, with the factory programming even when the car is floored. Same with the upshift to 2nd, seems like it could slip less going in.
I'm assuming the tune does more than just mess with turbo mapping.
Is slope a significant factor? I don't know..really. how do you define significant? In 0-60 times a change of .2 is significant to some people. A minor slope can effect that. It's why you really want to lock down the variables, not that there is anything wrong with a general idea or seat-of-the-pants. Just good to know what your dealing with and allow for the resulting margin of error. (Or try)
Again, not dogging, interested. Now the car's paid off might mess with it some.
I'm assuming the tune does more than just mess with turbo mapping.
Is slope a significant factor? I don't know..really. how do you define significant? In 0-60 times a change of .2 is significant to some people. A minor slope can effect that. It's why you really want to lock down the variables, not that there is anything wrong with a general idea or seat-of-the-pants. Just good to know what your dealing with and allow for the resulting margin of error. (Or try)
Again, not dogging, interested. Now the car's paid off might mess with it some.
Slope matters.
Where i see it really gets junk dats though is where people try and do runs at places like on ramps where it slopes down more than 1 percent but then slightly back up again by the end of the run enough to show a valid 1/4 mile slip but an invalid 1/8 mile. To me those should be completely invalid runs. Dragy invalidates everything over neg 1 percent. Its not a dragy issue there as its being accurate but rather people collecting bad data by not selecting a flat surface.
Launch impacts 0-60 so much i ignore it. Launch doesnt impact
1. Trap speed
2. Back half mph increases (comparing trap speed increases between the eighth and quarter)
3. 40-100, 60-130 etc
Those are the measures i like to use.
Where i see it really gets junk dats though is where people try and do runs at places like on ramps where it slopes down more than 1 percent but then slightly back up again by the end of the run enough to show a valid 1/4 mile slip but an invalid 1/8 mile. To me those should be completely invalid runs. Dragy invalidates everything over neg 1 percent. Its not a dragy issue there as its being accurate but rather people collecting bad data by not selecting a flat surface.
Launch impacts 0-60 so much i ignore it. Launch doesnt impact
1. Trap speed
2. Back half mph increases (comparing trap speed increases between the eighth and quarter)
3. 40-100, 60-130 etc
Those are the measures i like to use.
Excellent video - My conclusions are that the risk to reward ratio is not worth it, not to mention the ROI in dollars or hours. That doesn't even factor in the unknowns.
The truck is certainly quick enough without it.
That said imo the extra punch is worth the squeeze.
Takes 10 min to install and has the added benefit of smoothing out the stock cold start stumbling. Removes even quicker and you can sell it for about 150 less than you paid for it. Cheapest real 30hp and 60tq ive ever gotten. In my case i bought this one used and ill sell it for what i paid so ultimately its free.
That said imo the extra punch is worth the squeeze.
Takes 10 min to install and has the added benefit of smoothing out the stock cold start stumbling. Removes even quicker and you can sell it for about 150 less than you paid for it. Cheapest real 30hp and 60tq ive ever gotten. In my case i bought this one used and ill sell it for what i paid so ultimately its free.
FWIW, the piggyback (JB4 in my case) is something of an unholy hack but I'm impressed with what it delivers for the cost. That said, the gain really isn't a huge game-changer in enjoying the car's performance - it still feels breathless and underwhelming when pushed frankly. I'm amazed what can be squeezed from a 4cyl. these days and the car handles beautifully for what it is but I think if you're looking for seat-of-your-pants performance then you'll want to go for the v6 and not bother with tweaking this engine as you'll not escape its inherent limitations.
Good point... we got rear ended a week ago... minor so while it's in the shop we got a Dodge Durango rental for a week... and you can't imagine how I miss the handling. I think the handling is as important if not more important than power which is pretty good for an Suv. I agree that pushing it further is not worth it for that I would have just gotten the V6
Just to add incase it is helpful. I have done very tightly controlled acceleration testing as I modify my 2.0 stelvio. This table has my results, which I post on my thread. 0-60 improvement from stock to current modifications (see table for list of mods) is a 0.18 second improvement. A better measure of acceleration, controlling more for traction - 40mph to 100mph - shows an improvement of 0.46 seconds. My car is extremely well maintained at Alfa Romeo dealerships. I'm enjoying the mods.
For ease of understanding the table, "P2" means eurocomp phase 2 tune. Therefore, these improvements are Eurocomp p2 tune, cold air intake, upgraded diverter valve, relative to stock. Adding the exhaust next week, and will add those comparisons.
For ease of understanding the table, "P2" means eurocomp phase 2 tune. Therefore, these improvements are Eurocomp p2 tune, cold air intake, upgraded diverter valve, relative to stock. Adding the exhaust next week, and will add those comparisons.
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